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Re:TikTok profits from livestreams of families begging by wishfish on Thursday October 13, 2022 @10:58AM (#33191904)
TikTok live is kinda wild. You never know what you're going to get. One thing I like about it. My favorite was a live stream from a small town festival in Bali. Started off with a bunch of acrobats doing slapstick comedy. Ended with dancers in elaborate dragon masks, and the crowd joined in to make it a big dance party. Was so much fun. I now have a new resolve to go visit Bali.

I also really like all the truck drivers who do cab views. There's an ambulance driver somewhere in Vietnam who livestreams his shifts. Oddly mesmerizing to watch him zip through dense city traffic without a care in the world.

Quite a few people who seem to found the best hustle possible. They go daily to Disneyland and other parks. Somehow get enough gifts and tips to pay for it.

Also like the bars that stream their house bands. That one guy who rides a scooter around downtown LA late at night and gets in weird conversations with drunks. A guy who races Matchbox cars on his track and keeps track of the winners in a pseudo league. An Italian man who looks vaguely like Mr. Bean and does an almost endless stretch of magic tricks.

The one that I think about often is this 19 yr old guy in the Ukrainian Army. Only caught him once. Back in the summer. He and his unit were not yet on the front lines but his superiors had him digging a trench anyways. He was half-assing the digging while his comrades relaxed under trees and occasionally yelled something that would make the young guy laugh. He'd perk up anytime someone with a cute girl avatar would say something to him. They'd say something that made him just beam with happiness. I'll always wonder what happened to him. I hope he's ok.

Re:TikTok profits from livestreams of families begging by HEHENE on Thursday October 13, 2022 @11:18AM (#33192228)
Disney "influencers" are such a scourge on theme parks. Normal visitors take loads of photos and videos, often at inconvenient times, but when it comes to being in/on the attractions, they usually put their phones away and shut up.

Most rides at Disney parks have pre-shows about 3/4 of the way through the line that set up the story for the ride. Sometimes these are audiovisual, sometimes animatronic, but always with audio and almost always dark.

Likewise, most Disney rides are "dark rides" where the ride is primarily in the dark with animatronics and the scenery lit by carefully designed show lighting.

Influencers have seen these pre-shows and rides a thousand times and don't care about them. They keep there full-brightness phone up and filming for them and talk over them to their audience. It's incredibly distracting and immersion breaking.

I imagine Disney sees them as a net-positive though, as I'm sure they drive tons of ticket sales. Most influencers are travel agents who get paid by Disney, or are affiliated with a travel agency.

Re:TikTok profits from livestreams of families begging by flutas on Thursday October 13, 2022 @12:13PM (#33193006)
> I imagine Disney sees them as a net-positive though, as I'm sure they drive tons of ticket sales. Most influencers are travel agents who get paid by Disney, or are affiliated with a travel agency.

FWIW, I dug into this a while back because I was curious.

Most of them don't get 'paid' by Disney in a traditional sense, but will get things like exclusive access to press events/rides, free upcoming products, or in the case with that flop of a star wars hotel a "free $7,000 hotel stay."

All of which lets them technically say "I'm not paid by Disney, they just gave me this to show all of you!"

Most of their money comes from donations/stickers/whatever the latest term for it is from the livestreams.

Usually the order with Disney showing off new stuff goes something like

- Travel agents

- Social Media Influencers

- Passholes

- D23 (aka pay $100/yr for access)

- Joe Shmoe

Re:TikTok profits from livestreams of families begging by WaitWaitWha on Thursday October 13, 2022 @12:45PM (#33193482)
> ... I'm not paid by Disney, ...

The IRS have a completely different point of view.

Re:TikTok profits from livestreams of families begging by prvit on Thursday October 13, 2022 @01:31PM (#33194056)
They really don’t though.

“Hey, we’ll give you a free stay if you promote our hotel!” is compensatory.

“Hey, we’ll give you a free stay” isn’t obviously so.

Re:TikTok profits from livestreams of families begging by Smoosh on Thursday October 13, 2022 @05:44PM (#33196865)
But no company would simply give away free stays. That would cost them with no benefit.

There is a clear if unstated expectation that they will receive positive reviews and promotion as a result.

Re:TikTok profits from livestreams of families begging by WaitWaitWha on Thursday October 13, 2022 @06:15PM (#33197154)
It will be marked as an expense outgoing to a third party by Disney, and the third party will be named or identified. That third party if did not account for that income and get audited, will be provided a demand letter. Vast majority of the "audits" are fully automated using cross referencing expenses & deductions to incomes.

There is no such thing as "free" when it comes to the US IRS.

Re:TikTok profits from livestreams of families begging by prvit on Thursday October 13, 2022 @06:29PM (#33197305)
None of this means that you have to pay taxes.

But yeah, you're right. If you get audited, you might have to explain to the IRS that this is not compensatory income.

Re:TikTok profits from livestreams of families begging by flutas on Thursday October 13, 2022 @01:04PM (#33193720)
> The IRS have a completely different point of view.

Oh, I fully agree and I would bet a majority of them know that as well, they just have figured out a way to use some weasel words to act like it's not a payment to the general public.

Re:TikTok profits from livestreams of families begging by drawingthesun on Thursday October 13, 2022 @02:19PM (#33194548)
It's because there is no exchange, if I give you a birthday gift can that be considered income? Obviously not as I am not asking for something in return.

However:

If I buy you a gift and we agree for the gift you do task x for me. Now that is income and the value of the gift must be considered income on your tax return.

Disney isn't saying "here is a room for free if you do x, y , z"

Disney is saying "here is a room for free" and that is the end of it.

Of course the obvious issue for Disney is that the influencer might never do the review of the park and never in a million years could Disney take them to court complaining services were not rendered.

You cannot give a gift with expectation of return.

So it's not income.

But it's limited because the one giving you the gift really has to trust that you'll do the thing you do.

I am surprised Disney would bother to be honest. I thought their theme parks were popular enough already.

Re:TikTok profits from livestreams of families begging by hooverd on Thursday October 13, 2022 @06:19PM (#33197203)
Why does Coke pay for advertising?
Re:TikTok profits from livestreams of families begging by tough on Thursday October 13, 2022 @06:32PM (#33197343)
> I am surprised Disney would bother to be honest. I thought their theme parks were popular enough already.

They want to keep being popular ;). Same as the coke comment above me

Re:TikTok profits from livestreams of families begging by kixiQu on Thursday October 13, 2022 @07:04PM (#33197621)
> It's because there is no exchange, if I give you a birthday gift can that be considered income? Obviously not as I am not asking for something in return.

> However:

> If I buy you a gift and we agree for the gift you do task x for me. Now that is income and the value of the gift must be considered income on your tax return.

Caveat donor! The hand of the taxman extends somewhat further than laid out here.

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employe... :)

Re:TikTok profits from livestreams of families begging by Symbiote on Saturday October 15, 2022 @03:04AM (#33212494)
In Denmark, gifts beyond a certain amount are taxable.

The USA has similar rules.

https://skat.dk/taxrates

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employe...

Re:TikTok profits from livestreams of families begging by maxfurman on Thursday October 13, 2022 @12:54PM (#33193603)
Aw man, did the Star Wars hotel shut down already? I was hoping it would stick around until the check cleared for my kidney so I could take my family.
Re:TikTok profits from livestreams of families begging by flutas on Thursday October 13, 2022 @01:00PM (#33193683)
> Aw man, did the Star Wars hotel shut down already? I was hoping it would stick around until the check cleared for my kidney so I could take my family.

Nah, but you can book it for literally 2 days for now, which is somewhat unheard of for something like it, especially with the Disney and Star Wars name attached.

Re:TikTok profits from livestreams of families begging by prvit on Thursday October 13, 2022 @01:08PM (#33193777)
> Most of them don't get 'paid' by Disney in a traditional sense, but will get things like exclusive access to press events/rides, free upcoming products, or in the case with that flop of a star wars hotel a "free $7,000 hotel stay."

>All of which lets them technically say "I'm not paid by Disney, they just gave me this to show all of you!"

So they literally are not receiving any meaningful payments from Disney. A “$7000 hotel stay” you can’t even resell is worth very little compared to $ in bank.

Also, you forgot about Club 33. Those folks sometimes get better treatment than the regular passholes.

Re:TikTok profits from livestreams of families begging by flutas on Thursday October 13, 2022 @01:15PM (#33193868)
> So they literally are not receiving any meaningful payments from Disney. A “$7000 hotel stay” you can’t even resell is worth very little compared to $ in bank.

Except it's $7k that they most likely would have spent themselves as a business expense to try and get money from their streams. It's still Disney paying them, just in an alternate way.

It's why YouTube, Amazon and others require you to disclose that you got the item for free, because that can significantly alter your view and is basically turning you into an ad.

How many "normal" people would spend $7k for a 2 day hotel stay where you basically are stuck in someone else's itinerary? Hint, not enough to fill out 100 rooms consistently, even within 2 days. But it was all "OMG THIS IS AWESOME YOU HAVE TO DO IT" from the 'influencers.'

>Also, you forgot about Club 33. Those folks sometimes get better treatment than the regular passholes.

Oops, yep. Forgot the $100k Disney club. Plus the timeshare suckers.

Re:TikTok profits from livestreams of families begging by prvit on Thursday October 13, 2022 @01:30PM (#33194041)
> Except it's $7k that they most likely would have spent themselves as a business expense to try and get money from their streams. It's still Disney paying them, just in an alternate way.

So and so. Here’s an exaggerated example: Disney likes your consistent shilling and grants you a Club 33 membership valued in many tens of thousands.

Even as a big Disney influencer there’s a very good chance you’d never have paid for this.

From a legal POV whether or not something like this is compensation isn’t clear, it’s highly dependent on the specific details. An influencer absolutely can legally receive gifts from Disney knowing that they’re almost certainly hoping for those gifts to pop up on that influencers feed.

Re:TikTok profits from livestreams of families begging by jaywalk on Thursday October 13, 2022 @01:24PM (#33193968)
Most of the influencers I saw talking about that Star Wars hotel when it opened were basically shitting on it. I felt like their reviews were pretty unbiased.
Re:TikTok profits from livestreams of families begging by hnlmorg on Thursday October 13, 2022 @03:44PM (#33195615)
> It's why YouTube, Amazon and others require you to disclose that you got the item for free, because that can significantly alter your view and is basically turning you into an ad.

I always assumed that was a legal requirement. Isn’t it technically classed as fraud (or something?) to not disclose that you were sponsored by the resort?

Re:TikTok profits from livestreams of families begging by OJFord on Thursday October 13, 2022 @05:14PM (#33196574)
Obviously this will vary by jurisdiction, but it's a relatively new problem in all of them. (At least, the format is new and it hasn't been obvious if/how the old rules apply.)

In the UK for example the advertising regulator decided it's advertising, kind of like a 'product placement' on television, and therefore needs to be clearly so/declared.

Re:TikTok profits from livestreams of families begging by wishfish on Thursday October 13, 2022 @11:46AM (#33192590)
I could see that. I enjoy the live cam tours because my partner is immunosuppressed and we're not going anywhere for a while. So it's nice to visit virtually. But I hadn't thought about the actual visitors and what they would think about it. I could see how they'd loathe these people constantly recording and being obnoxious about it.
Re:TikTok profits from livestreams of families begging by fencepost on Thursday October 13, 2022 @12:54PM (#33193592)
Talk with people around you and try to get agreement that if there's a disruptive influencer you'll all chant "Turn off the phone! Turn off the phone!"?
Re:TikTok profits from livestreams of families begging by clucas on Thursday October 13, 2022 @09:19PM (#33198587)
Something about your post reminded me of this poem: https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poetrymagazine/browse?conte...

I hope he's OK too.

Re:TikTok profits from livestreams of families begging by wishfish on Friday October 14, 2022 @09:33AM (#33203303)
Thank you for the poem. That was beautiful.