None of what you mention presents plausible evidence of your statement implying that CIA/MI6 have monolithic control over information regarding the camps. Not to say they aren't manipulating information or have no involvement, but none of the evidence you present backs up your claim.

Enforcing the birth of children and sending people to camps are two very different issues.

The content not being HD could be explained by them using less detectable drones. I would imagine that flying a military or HD drone over sovereign territory would be dangerous and an act of aggression, so it's within the realm of belief that someone, perhaps covertly, used a drone less likely to draw suspicion, not easily detectable or traceable to foreign interests.

Moreover if you watch the Frontline (the same source you cited above) documentaries about Iraq, you'll find they present people working in intelligence at the time explicitly told officials Zarqawi was sketchy and that the information he presented was not supported by the intel they had.

I'm not saying it's a certainty without doubt that the camps are everything what some sources allege them to be, but it's also not certain without a doubt that they aren't.

> That policy never applied to ethnic groups, so the idea that the chinese government is trying to imprison ethnic groups to "re-educate" them is hard to believe

I’m trying to understand this paragraph. In your mind, in what way does the one child policy make any of this hard to believe? How does that policy change our understanding of what’s going on in these camps?

If they were against ethnic groups, as the current western propaganda wants us to believe, they would have applied that policy so they'd have less of that "problematic ethnic group"

They didn't, which mean they are fine having ethnic groups

The west is pushing this propaganda because it's a known fact that the US want to split the Chinese territory (Tibetan, Uighurs, Taiwanese) (same with Russia btw)

For the same reason they now, publicly announced, want to hinder China's development

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/asia/china-lashes-out-latest...

> They didn't, which mean they are fine having ethnic groups

This is a gigantic leap to a conclusion that does not logically follow the premises, and ignores evidence that requires no such leaps.

I guess it was the inevitable that the Chinese propaganda machine would make its way to HN.

> This is a gigantic leap to a conclusion that does not logically follow the premises, and ignores evidence that requires no such leaps.

If by evidence you mean blurry twitter videos, then i agree with you, it is a gigantic leap to a conclusion that does not logically follow the premises, and ignores evidence that requires no such leaps

> I guess it was the inevitable that the Chinese propaganda machine would make its way to HN.

I am not pro-china, i am intellectually ascended

If you’re only aware of blurry videos on Twitter, I’d recommend you do a deeper dive and look at additional reporting on this matter. You don’t have to look very far [0] (just a single example).

At least you acknowledge the gigantic leap in your argument.

How does one go through the ascension process?

- [0] https://www.bbc.com/news/extra/85qihtvw6e/the-faces-from-chi...

You can start by taking the stages and realising and admitting to yourself that you've been had. The propaganda you've just posted is all fake. These images are all fake, and obviously so. All the eyes are at an identical pitch, when you go to the source you'll find many of them wearing exactly the same clothes, with exactly the same creases. Here's more debunking this fake "hack"

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1529035481203154945.html

It just has to be good enough to get a headline in the news, it never stands up to scrutiny and people need a lot of courage to admit to themselves that reputed mainstream news outlets are lying to them constantly.

> These images are all fake, and obviously so.

As a photographer, what about these images is obviously fake?

> All the eyes are at an identical pitch

Which is evidence of what? Generally, when booking photos are taken, the subject is asked to look at a single spot to preserve consistency and identifiability.

> when you go to the source you'll find many of them wearing exactly the same clothes, with exactly the same creases.

I find it very unsurprising that people in a prison situation are wearing the same clothes.

All of my clothing is also creased in the same places, but this is no big conspiracy, there are just popular ways of folding clothes…

I’m always interested in getting the whole story, but you’re going to need to share a less sketchy link…

>As a photographer, what about these images is obviously fake?

As a rational person, everything about the photos is obviously fake. Take a look at this website: thispersondoesnotexist.com . You can see a new victim of communism each time you refresh the page. It's easy to create such images, but here they didn't make much effort to differentiate them and there's some slamdunk obvious fakes.

>Which is evidence of what? Generally, when booking photos are taken, the subject is asked to look at a single spot to preserve consistency and identifiability.

I'm starting to think you're being dishonest with me and perhaps yourself. This is a silly reason to claim that eyes would be at the same pitch, and besides, the people having exactly the same clothes in the same places? Multiple people?

This one has to be my favourite: https://www.xinjiangpolicefiles.org/wp-content/uploads/dt_im...

This one is where the AI doesn't know human anatomy and the head doesn't connect to the body correctly:

https://www.xinjiangpolicefiles.org/wp-content/uploads/dt_im...

Here's one where it couldn't decide if the glasses existed or not:

https://www.xinjiangpolicefiles.org/wp-content/uploads/dt_im...

I know it's hard to face up to the shattering of the illusion of BBC impartiality (and all of western media in general) and especially the scale of the lies being pushed at you, but you need to be able to do this as a grown adult in 2022. You can't even claim that the BBC have been fooled, they are overtly and openly using Adrian Zenz as a source. Talk about "sketchy". It's interesting that you didn't call the BBC's fundamentalist-christian homophobic racist source, "sketchy".

> As a rational person, everything about the photos is obviously fake. Take a look at this website: thispersondoesnotexist.com

As a rational person, the existence of thispersondoesnotexist.com has as much bearing on the realness of these photos as it does on the realness of any other photo that exists.

I thought you might have at least a stretched-but-plausible argument but this is just not even worthy of consideration.

> I know it's hard to face up to the shattering of the illusion of BBC impartiality (and all of western media in general)…

I have no allusions about the impartiality and bias of media - western or otherwise. The existence of bias does not invalidate the existence of facts. Even a biased news outlet is often correct (with details missing that must be filled in from elsewhere, which is distinctly different from reporting pure falsehoods). But we don’t have to just rely on the BBC here - this is a well covered issue at this point.

> …and especially the scale of the lies being pushed at you

The real question is, are you aware of the scale of the lies pushed by your own government?

At this point I’m not interested in continuing to defend against logical fallacies from an obvious mouthpiece of the Chinese state, so I’m not planning to reply again. But if in the very slight chance that you’re just some Irish guy who hates the west, ask yourself what elevates your own unsubstantiated claims above those of career journalists and human rights organizations. Ask yourself if you’re comfortable siding with a potentially genocidal but definitely authoritarian state.

Wow those last two are some pretty bad fakes. The first one I could blame on like file corruption or something, but I can't think of any way to explain the last two.

The one where the "head doesn't connect to the body correctly" shows a man with a tensed sternocleidomastoid muscle. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sternocleidomastoid_muscle

The one where "it couldn't decide if the glasses existed or not" probably shows a woman wearing cochlear implants behind her ears.

Sorry but humans do not look like that, sternocleidomastoid or no. Even the shadow makes no sense. Cochlear implants are, implanted, not worn over the ears.

There's many many more pictures like this. They're fake people.

Such an intellectually lazy accusation that people are part of some "propaganda machine" because they simply call out obvious nonsense propaganda and lies from our own country's media.

Coverage of the abuses in these prisons is not limited to a single country or region of the world. And which is “my own” country’s media?

It is not intellectual laziness to observe that an account primarily parrots the propaganda of foreign repressive governments.

Your own account is rather interesting in that regard.

Coverage of these abuses is limited to the west. The USA and its vassal states. I have no idea which your country's media is except they we're both in the west.

I agree with your parroting of the propaganda of repressive regimes, your admission is noted. The USA is the most repressive regime on the planet by any metric.

I see your only response now that your dishonesty has been called out is to try to cast aspersions on the caller, rather than deal with the points of discussion.

As an “Irish” person you sure are remarkably interested in defending the Chinese state.

Considering Irish history, your stories seem… incongruous.

Strange, I would have said the opposite. Irish people tend to be opposed to imperialism considering our history of suffering under it.

But I don't defend the Chinese state at all, I just call out western warmongering lies.

> If they were against ethnic groups, as the current western propaganda wants us to believe, they would have applied that policy so they'd have less of that "problematic ethnic group"

> They didn't, which mean they are fine having ethnic groups

Or, they just didn't deem the issue relevant enough to spend the resources to deal with it. China is a large country, some of those ethnic groups exist in remote locations, some very difficult to reach- it has been the case numerous times when a natural disaster occurred and aid was slow to reach those regions because of logistical difficulties.

Perhaps it wasn't that they are fine with the ethnic groups, but that they were indifferent and/or deemed them unimportant unless they had sufficient reason to think they warranted the attention/involvement.

Mind that just because they didn't want to lower their numbers, doesn't mean they have no issue with those groups, or that they wouldn't have issues with them if the situation and their perception of them changed.

Taiwan is not part of China. There’s nothing for the US to split.

I have never met a single person that isn’t a Chinese propogandaist that actually believes Taiwan is a part of China. It’s such an obvious calling card.

Literally every country in the world, including the USA, believes that Taiwan is a part of China. You're extremely uninformed on this matter.

The US does not consider Taiwan part of China. The US follows one China policy which is that they acknowdge Chinas position that it believes Taiwan is part of China.

That’s like saying “I understand you believe that the sky is pink.”

Hence she the US refers to it as strategic ambiguity. This is the same position that the likes of NZ and AU have.

So don’t go telling people they are uninformed when clearly you’re just here spreading propaganda.

You're just splitting hairs. It's the same picture.

There’s a reason why the CCP uses the One China Principle while countries like the US have One China Policy.

Don’t forget that the CCP advocated for Taiwan independence, and during an interview Mao said they would help Taiwan (Formosa) in its struggle for independence. During a conference in Moscow in the 1920s they referred to Taiwan as an independent nation and nationality. This only changed in 1943.

There’s no long China history with China. When the Dutch went to Taiwan there was no presence of Ming dynasty. And at no point in history had china ever controlled or ruled over Taiwan. The CCP has never even set food in Taiwan.

So it literally has no valid claims to Taiwan. Regardless of any opinions you may hold.

If that’s splitting hairs then there’s no point in discussing because you obviously don’t care about history or facts and only regurgitate propaganda.

Are you aware of the forced marriages to ethnic Han Chinese people? I am having trouble following your logic.

Source?

He's referring to:

“Darren Byler, an anthropologist at Simon Fraser University who studies repression in Xinjiang, recently uncovered evidence that some Han “relatives” in Uyghur homes had coerced women into such marriages.”

Byler, who is also an American Kissinger Institute fellow. https://www.wilsoncenter.org/person/darren-byler

If it's China news, and it's in the west, it's really good policy to completely disbelieve the claims first and then demand evidence. You won't get any.