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Re:School vs. Wikipedia by hindsightbias on Friday October 07, 2022 @04:13PM (#33126361)
Wiki is transparent in a self-referential sense only. History started in 1992. If there’s no hyperlink, it’s lost. Pick any wiki page and see all the dead, rotting citations.

I’d bet any mining of actually working citations would average closer to 2015. It used to be people citing something from the 70’s or 80’s would get strange looks from people who lived then, now I see Millenials looking at Gen-Z kids that way.

History is written not by the victor, but by the last wiki editor.

Re:School vs. Wikipedia by adhesive_wombat on Friday October 07, 2022 @04:25PM (#33126491)
Maybe, but with the extensive number of books, journals, magazines and newspapers scanned and available to view on the Internet Archive, it's never been easier to add or verify a printed source citation.

Also various other newspaper archives have mind-numbing amounts of scanned material dating back well over 100 years, and the Wikipedia Library provides free access to these resources for editors.

Re:School vs. Wikipedia by throwaway09223 on Friday October 07, 2022 @05:02PM (#33126813)
> If there’s no hyperlink, it’s lost

This just isn't true. Most wikipedia references have a hyperlink and a proper citation which can be looked up using traditional means. For example, a cite might look like this:

"Intel Pentium Processor G6950 (3M Cache, 2.80 GHz) with SPEC Code(s) SLBMS". Ark.intel.com. 2010-07-13. Archived from the original on 2011-03-09. Retrieved 2010-07-29.

The link to intel.com has rotted, but:

1) There's an archive of the page so the information hasn't been lost

2) There's also a full citation, with which you can write a letter to Intel asking them for the document in question ("Intel Pentium Processor G6950 (3M Cache, 2.80 GHz) with SPEC Code(s) SLBMS"). This is a lot more detail than you'd have in a traditional encyclopedia. If you're a researcher, the encyclopedia has given what you need to seek more detail from the primary source - and that's the whole point!

archive.org and wikipedia.org working together is really powerful.

Re:School vs. Wikipedia by froh on Saturday October 08, 2022 @12:26AM (#33129783)
with history begins 1992 they are referencing books, content which is not in the web. you talk about the link quality. other problem.
Re:School vs. Wikipedia by throwaway09223 on Saturday October 08, 2022 @01:07AM (#33129925)
No, OP specifically referenced "dead, rotting citations" which is a link quality problem.

In terms of book references Wikipedia simply wins, hands down. Those don't rot.

Re:School vs. Wikipedia by end_of_line on Sunday October 09, 2022 @02:24AM (#33138684)
The owner of the site can remove content even from the web archive. It's far harder to remove books with isbns from national libraries.
Re:School vs. Wikipedia by throwaway09223 on Sunday October 09, 2022 @12:59PM (#33142961)
Wikipedia has book citations, and more and better book citations than traditional encyclopedias.

It's unclear what your point is. Are you suggesting wikipedia shouldn't also have citations to content published online, simply because it might be removed?

Re:School vs. Wikipedia by end_of_line on Sunday October 09, 2022 @01:07PM (#33143062)
Most wikipedia citations are linked to some news articles (this is not too bad, still newspapers are being archived) and some random internet blog articles of some random people which show up and disappear. Source creditworthness analysis? Good joke Wikipedia says :-) At best you can get some people's opinion about something.
Re:School vs. Wikipedia by throwaway09223 on Sunday October 09, 2022 @06:53PM (#33146093)
That's a very silly take and is easily disproven. For example, pick any science topic at random. Let's look at Quantum Mechanics:

There are 81 citations. Of these, only 9 are not citing published books with an ISBN, or articles published in journals.

4 are citations to papers or articles published by physics professors on their university websites (Berkeley, Riverside, CUNY, Caltech)

Three are links to magazines: Quanta Magazine, Scientific American, Physics World

The remaining two are a link to the Nobel Foundation (regarding a nobel prize award) and a link to Merriam-Webster for a definition of "Quantum."

> At best you can get some people's opinion about something.

Nah, not even close.

Re:School vs. Wikipedia by end_of_line on Monday October 10, 2022 @04:58AM (#33149269)
And this is cherry picking. As studies show the quality varies strongly for historical, politically controversial and highly scientifical topics ( only few wikipedia editors ). Link https://dl.acm.org/doi/fullHtml/10.1145/3178876.3186132#BibP... So nothing "easily disproven"
Re:School vs. Wikipedia by throwaway09223 on Monday October 10, 2022 @10:06AM (#33151575)
No, it's a counter-example which unequivocally disproves your inaccurate generalization.

Cherry picking can only occur if I'm generalizing, and I am not. Counter-examples aren't cherry-picking.

Your statement "At best you can get some people's opinion about something" has been disproven.

Re:School vs. Wikipedia by end_of_line on Tuesday October 11, 2022 @01:45PM (#33166385)
My thesis was "you can't take Wikipedia quality for granted" it fails to be objective on many topics. And your thesis is? Your counter thesis?
Re:School vs. Wikipedia by jholman on Friday October 07, 2022 @05:51PM (#33127315)
Pedantry alert, but it drives me crazy:

"Wiki" is a type of software, like "editor" or "web browser". It is not the name of wikipedia.

Yes yes, language evolves, but this is like someone deleting the Internet Explorer link from their Windows desktop and saying "I deleted the internet from this computer, I don't have the internet any more".

Re:School vs. Wikipedia by teddyh on Saturday October 08, 2022 @08:05AM (#33131599)
See also “crypto” and “text”.
Re:School vs. Wikipedia by jholman on Thursday October 13, 2022 @09:37PM (#33198674)
Good god, yes.