News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Upgrade to Linux by least on Thursday October 06, 2022 @06:55PM (#33115207)
This website is terrible. Its "resources" are almost entirely just links to articles and youtube videos. The information is poorly presented and poorly written. Why is the front page entirely taken up by a picture of a penguin?
Re:Upgrade to Linux by cmeacham98 on Thursday October 06, 2022 @07:09PM (#33115328)
If you think that's bad, check out this link: https://www.upgradetolinux.com/linux-differences-an-introduc...

According to the link I clicked on to get here, this is supposed to be "linux differences".

I daily drive linux and recommend it to people who I think would do well with it, but I would never link them this website.

Re:Upgrade to Linux by 1970-01-01 on Thursday October 06, 2022 @07:14PM (#33115393)
>What do you mean by “It does not get viruses”?

Well, I mean, um https://www.linuxexperten.com/library/e-resources/linux-malw...

Re:Upgrade to Linux by Kim_Bruning on Thursday October 06, 2022 @08:05PM (#33115810)
I know that some people say "virus" when they mean malware in general. However, a literal virus is a snippet of code that attaches itself to an executable. When the executable is run, the virus also runs. The virus then finds more executables and attaches itself to those too.

Literal viruses on diverse unices were indeed fairly rare in the past (and are still not common).

Traditionally on most linuxes (and bsds) you obtain trusted executables from a known good source (your distribution ) , whilst files from other sources are never run at all.

This means that Linux viruses find it hard to actually spread in the wild.

This particular strength doesn't mean other kinds of malware can't still be successful, of course. (Though naturally people try to harden Linux against many threats.)

Re:Upgrade to Linux by the_jesus_villa on Thursday October 06, 2022 @08:57PM (#33116134)
>Traditionally on most linuxes (and bsds) you obtain trusted executables from a known good source (your distribution ) , whilst files from other sources are never run at all.

On the other hand, the vast majority of people installing applications by piping curl output to Bash are also on linuxes and bsds

Re:Upgrade to Linux by cowtools on Thursday October 06, 2022 @10:34PM (#33116801)
Is this worst-case scenario for linux users any worse than the average-case of windows users downloading an .exe from a vendor's website and running it?

If you do not already have a pubkey for which the code can be signed, then there is no chain of trust to verify in the first place. What signature would you check the code against in such a scenario? One you download from the vendor's same website?

Re:Upgrade to Linux by ThrowawayR2 on Thursday October 06, 2022 @11:50PM (#33117219)
> "Is this worst-case scenario for linux users any worse than the average-case of windows users downloading an .exe from a vendor's website and running it?"

Uh, yes? The naïve Windows user has Windows Defender scanning downloads to offer at least some token protection against known threats.

Re:Upgrade to Linux by Semaphor on Thursday October 06, 2022 @11:54PM (#33117241)
A tiny bit, maybe. Those commands usually run as root, at least Windows warns you if the installer wants root.

But I think the main point is that this debunks "whilst files from other sources are never run at all".

Re:Upgrade to Linux by Kim_Bruning on Friday October 07, 2022 @12:55PM (#33123921)
That's always the problem with using the word "Never". That should have been "Almost Never" or "Rarely" (which is true for me at least) , and I didn't catch it when I proof-read my comment. Sorry about that.

And yes: while traditionally people might install just from their distribution, times have changed a bit and people now do install from pip, cargo, npm, etc; but these are _somewhat_ trusted repositories still (rightly or wrongly).

Some people sometimes use curl as well. Due to the nature and low volume, this still doesn't give literal viruses much leeway. This is because it's not a target-rich environment (only a few executables), it's not guaranteed to happen on many computers, and most importantly, people tend to only curl in one direction. When you curl, you're mostly going to end up downloading executables from some central location. Typically these executables don't subsequently get copied to (m)any other computers or back to the server. So a literal virus doesn't get a lot of traction to replicate the way a virus wants to.

If you do manage to curl some malware, what you'd get is probably going to be something that's properly called a Trojan. Trojans are definitely a thing.

Just because you're on Linux doesn't mean you're magically completely invulnerable to all kinds of malware, you still need to act with care.

On the upside many distributions are more or less designed to keep you safe by default, and won't suddenly do something crazy to get you into trouble. On the downside the human operators are not always similarly inclined. ;-)

Re:Upgrade to Linux by the_jesus_villa on Thursday October 06, 2022 @11:56PM (#33117246)
>Is this worst-case scenario for linux users any worse than the average-case of windows users downloading an .exe from a vendor's website and running it?

Well in my case, I screw around a lot on my computer. So I end up copying and pasting a few lines of bash code that download god-knows-what because I accidentally deleted the entire /etc/ directory and the howto guide that was the 3rd result on Google says "run this it will totally work".

So at least for me, yes, it's often worse than installing an .exe from a vendor's website.

But I didn't mean to say Linux installs don't tend to be safer than Windows, just that it's not as rosy as the original comment made it seem like.

Re:Upgrade to Linux by Filligree on Thursday October 06, 2022 @09:31PM (#33116413)
Doesn't seem that different from running the application after installing it, to be honest.
Re:Upgrade to Linux by dijksterhuis on Thursday October 06, 2022 @09:10PM (#33116246)
What can I say, I enjoy living dangerously.
Re:Upgrade to Linux by bm-rf on Thursday October 06, 2022 @07:15PM (#33115409)
I wonder what the intended audience of this page is supposed to be
Re:Upgrade to Linux by jamiek88 on Thursday October 06, 2022 @07:33PM (#33115549)
Seo backlinks maybe. Or YouTube traffic generators for ad revenue?
Re:Upgrade to Linux by titoCA321 on Thursday October 06, 2022 @11:38PM (#33117164)
I don't understand this phenomena in the Linux community of trying to convert anyone and everyone to Linux. But then again, I'm not want to convert others to my religion, sports team or car model.
Re:Upgrade to Linux by cycomanic on Friday October 07, 2022 @02:15AM (#33118009)
MS and Apple are doing plenty more advertising to try to convert people to use their OS. The difference is that Linux is not backed by a large corporation, so naturally it relies on people talking about it, it's more similar to a grassroots movement that tries to e.g. get you to grow your own vegetables instead of buying at the supermarket.

I would also argue that the Mac community in particular is pretty vocal about trying to convert people to macs.

Re:Upgrade to Linux by nuker on Friday October 07, 2022 @02:21AM (#33118036)
Lol. Macs are the best of two worlds for many people. Its like properly secured Linux that you dont need to fiddle with.
Re:Upgrade to Linux by cycomanic on Friday October 07, 2022 @05:00AM (#33118930)
Thank you for proving my point.
Re:Upgrade to Linux by 3np on Thursday October 06, 2022 @08:30PM (#33115953)
> Where are the .exe files?

Glad they focus on the important stuff, at least.

Re:Upgrade to Linux by keyle on Thursday October 06, 2022 @10:46PM (#33116863)
No I think it's perfect. It sets the tone to what to expect in terms of user experience once it's installed.
Re:Upgrade to Linux by hsn915 on Thursday October 06, 2022 @09:26PM (#33116372)
It's a reflection of the linux ecosystem because it's imbued with the linux mentality.

Just throw things together (that were all designed and built separately) and convince yourself it will form a coherent whole.

Re:Upgrade to Linux by macropin on Thursday October 06, 2022 @07:47PM (#33115674)
It's so bad it's kinda cool. Gives me Lindows Rock vibes.

Ref: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSdRTOh2jeA

Re:Upgrade to Linux by sylens on Thursday October 06, 2022 @09:58PM (#33116591)
I rolled my eyes when I saw the first resource linked under "Why" was a video titled "Microsoft Can Kiss My A*"
Re:Upgrade to Linux by _emacsomancer_ on Thursday October 06, 2022 @08:05PM (#33115813)
Not something I would be likely to direct people to. The most reasonable thing I've found so far is: https://opensource.com/resources/linux
Re:Upgrade to Linux by glonq on Thursday October 06, 2022 @07:08PM (#33115321)
If it was still the year 2012 then this would be a _great_ website.

But yeah. Terrible.

Re:Upgrade to Linux by dmix on Thursday October 06, 2022 @07:24PM (#33115482)
Web design wasn't invented after 2012. This goes against a ton of principles (Bootstrap was 2011).

It could be a 2012 mobile site without a proper desktop version though.

Re:Upgrade to Linux by OJFord on Thursday October 06, 2022 @08:05PM (#33115811)
The penguin's so big that the page title's cropped off the bottom on my (idk, 2020?) phone - I can't imagine it would look better on 2012 phones.

Even the burger menu icon aspect ratio seems 'wrong'.

Re:Upgrade to Linux by dmix on Friday October 07, 2022 @09:34AM (#33121050)
Open source family has an issue attracting good designers. That applies to web design too.
Re:Upgrade to Linux by tetraca on Thursday October 06, 2022 @07:17PM (#33115424)
If it was still the year N-10 then this would be a great X more or less sums up my entire desktop linux experience.
Re:Upgrade to Linux by OJFord on Thursday October 06, 2022 @08:09PM (#33115841)
Ever use a 'window manager', particularly tiling, rather than a full 'desktop' or 'display manager'? I've had the opposite experience, i3 and now sway have made macOS & Windows clunky and unusable nightmares to me - even talking strictly just about interface/windowing/interaction.
Re:Upgrade to Linux by cpsns on Thursday October 06, 2022 @09:57PM (#33116582)
I have and I’ve never been able to understand tiling WMs. After using nontiling ( I don’t know the term) window managers since Windows 95 my mind is just trained for that sort of window management, anything else feels wrong and frustrating.

It’s not for a lack of trying either, I really have tried to like tiling wms.

Re:Upgrade to Linux by tetraca on Thursday October 06, 2022 @11:32PM (#33117118)
I've used tiling window managers before, but I don't really find them to be that big of a productivity boost. I have two monitors and I prefer to have all my windows maximized. The only splitting that I need is in my text editor.

The one thing I do like is the command line - I find that to be a much better experience than power shell or cmd. But that is it. If I want to do anything creative that isn't text based it feels flatly inferior. But your mileage may vary based on what you like to do.

I love it in a server, I just don't like linux on the desktop.

Re:Upgrade to Linux by OJFord on Friday October 07, 2022 @05:22AM (#33119083)
I'm not one to make 'productivity' claims about tiling wms. I'm certainly more productive in one, but that's because that's what I'm used to. (Maybe a little bit because it's an innate preference too, but not even sure of that.)

I just find it less frustrating and more organised looking than overlapping windows, swiping between desktops (or it being animated, or somehow slow even with animations turned off).

Basically I just meant I don't think I'd like the Gnome/Xfce/whatever Linux desktop experience either - it would have all the same things that frustrate me on macOS/Windows, and I expect I would agree it's inferior to those (with their massive budgets, UX staff count and salary alone probably dwarfing the Linux OSS projects - not a criticism of them or their efforts).

Re:Upgrade to Linux by hrbf on Friday October 07, 2022 @05:46AM (#33119225)
I’ve tried it before: FreeBSD, OpenBSD, Linux with X and regular as well as tiling WMs. In the end I found no productive advantage to just using Rectangle [1] and LaunchBar [2] on macOS. The system mostly works and enables access to all the Unix software I need. Most of the time I just need a shell, tmux and a web browser.

The ongoing fiddling around – to this day – with a substandard experience regarding battery life, WiFi performance and GPU issues as well as HiDPI especially on laptops is a dealbreaker for me.

But then again, that may be a major purpose of desktop Unix, Linux especially: to enable those who see fiddling around (read: hacking) as an end in itself. After all, a dedicated car mechanic will never be truly happy driving a Toyota.

[1]: https://rectangleapp.com/

[2]: https://obdev.at/products/launchbar/index.html

Re:Upgrade to Linux by joecot on Friday October 07, 2022 @12:11AM (#33117334)
This looks like the sort of website my friends and I would've setup when we were running local community teams for Ubuntu and running computer expo and flea market tables trying to get people to try it. In 2005. I checked, this domain was registered May 2022.