Brain on Psychedelics

Re:Brain on Psychedelics by sva_ on Thursday October 06, 2022 @12:47PM (#33110679)

I have never been in an MRI but I imagine with some good headphones and blindfolds it might be interesting.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Brain on Psychedelics by squeaky-clean on Thursday October 06, 2022 @12:59PM (#33110863)

It's *VERY* loud. You can't wear conventional headphones, you'll need non-magnetic headphones that are made specifically to be used during MRI scans. That means no active noise canceling features. The MRI is loud enough to be heard through the passive attenuation of headphones or earplugs, so you'll still hear the mechanical beat of the MRI underneath any music.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Brain on Psychedelics by AstralStorm on Thursday October 06, 2022 @03:07PM (#33112594)

Oh you could make noise dampening and cancelling headphones for MRI with nonmagnetic piezo transducers. Ear canal earphones would help with it too by cutting the noise some 30 dB.

The problem is that the noise made by the machine is loud sounds comparable to an explosion or a gunshot. You can reduce it but never fully cancel it, and it's rather startling.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Brain on Psychedelics by ace2358 on Thursday October 06, 2022 @05:38PM (#33114434)

There are styles of headphones that are like an ear plug (to reduce noise by say 20db) that have a small tube running to the driver that is a long distance away. They’re these clear tubes with a coil you see on security guards and what not. The actual driver is somewhere else.

This could also be used. I think some in ear monitors are like to too.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Brain on Psychedelics by squeaky-clean on Thursday October 06, 2022 @07:37PM (#33115583)

When I was looking this is exactly how MRI headphones worked. Just with a much longer tube

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Brain on Psychedelics by squeaky-clean on Thursday October 06, 2022 @07:50PM (#33115697)

Noise dampening? Yeah plenty exist. There's a hard limit of about 30db reduction passively unless you also plug your mouth, nostrils, and wear a helmet around your skull. But noise reduction/dampening does not mean the same thing as active noise canceling.

For ANC you need a microphone very close to the ear and some sort of chip to process that and apply it inversely to the speaker. There would just be too much delay if the sound waves have to make a round trip more than a few mm

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Brain on Psychedelics by ta988 on Thursday October 06, 2022 @11:45PM (#33117191)

And you will have a phase problem because of the delay of transmission. And the phase of the noise is not predictable that well (the RF that cause it is really precise, but the physical movement of the coils and everything around them is not).

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Brain on Psychedelics by Velc on Thursday October 06, 2022 @06:13PM (#33114792)

I honestly don’t think it would be that bad. Let’s say your actually only in the machine for an hour or so during the height of your trip. To me, an MRI scan sounds almost like a deep house or techno beat. It might even be enjoyable. The worst MRI scans are ones done with contrast - having a thick needle in your arm really ruins the MRI experience for me.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Brain on Psychedelics by archibaldJ on Friday October 07, 2022 @12:17AM (#33117370)

can we design MRI scan with a programmed physical (movnig) noise absorbing panels so the sound actually becomes rhythmic or even jazz like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqpEQWRcQcw

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Brain on Psychedelics by Velc on Friday October 07, 2022 @10:50AM (#33122131)

Even better, match up the sound to a song with a similar BPM and create an analogue techno mashup set.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Brain on Psychedelics by mikeg8 on Thursday October 06, 2022 @12:53PM (#33110786)

Doubtful. It’s not comfortable, you can’t move, and it’s extremely noisy to the point that no headphones would be able to drown out the mechanical sounds that would ruin a psychedelic experience

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Brain on Psychedelics by Broken_Hippo on Thursday October 06, 2022 @01:03PM (#33110911)

I dunno. I have to get MRIs regularly: Once a year for my central nervous system (I have MS, this is common) and once a year or so for my pancreas.

I don't mind at all. I have to stay alert for the pancreas since I have to hold my breath at one point, but all I do for the brain/spinal cord is lay still. The machine vibrates, headphones dull the sound, and sometimes there is music. I could sleep and I find the vibration kind of soothing - much like being in a car.

I kinda look forward to it, honestly.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Brain on Psychedelics by mikeg8 on Thursday October 06, 2022 @02:05PM (#33111729)

I’m not saying that the MRI experience itself is unbearable. But have you ever done psychedelics? No sleeping/snoozing. Your mind is very, very active and it can be intense/emotional. The experience I’ve had with MRI and shrooms/LSD makes them seem very incompatible. Just my opinion though.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Brain on Psychedelics by fluoridation on Thursday October 06, 2022 @02:52PM (#33112382)

I don't know. Mushrooms make me want to stay as still as possible in whatever position I'm in, even if it's standing. Unless the person suffers from claustrophobia, I don't think it would be an unbearable experience.

It is possible to sort of sleep on psychs. I guess it's not quite sleep; it's more like a relaxed state of altered consciousness within the "normal" state of altered consciousness. I sometimes become alert again and realize I dozed off for a few minutes without losing track of time.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Brain on Psychedelics by Broken_Hippo on Thursday October 06, 2022 @03:38PM (#33112978)

I've done more psychedelics than I remember. I know I've done LSD at least 35-40 times over the years, and it has been less than 3 months at this point. I'm over 40, by the way.

I can sit there with my eyes closed while on LSD. Same with mushrooms. Mushrooms are a bit more fun with that because of the visuals and patterns - I've spent some hours like this in a hotel in Amsterdam (truffles, obviously).

I already find an MRI relaxing - they give you a button in case anything goes wrong, after all, and they can put music in the headphones. I can definitely just relax there and I can definitely see how it would be pretty immersive. Plus, I'm pretty sure they aren't giving these folks contrast through an IV and that's really the bit I'd have some issues with.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Brain on Psychedelics by Mezzie on Thursday October 06, 2022 @10:53PM (#33116905)

MRI days = free rest days. So relaxing.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Brain on Psychedelics by uoaei on Thursday October 06, 2022 @08:13PM (#33115865)

I mean, you go into it knowing you're high and doing this for a medical study, so the experience of the setting can be reframed by the right (mind)set. Duty and higher purpose do a lot to change one's mentalities.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Brain on Psychedelics by jonnycomputer on Thursday October 06, 2022 @10:32PM (#33116782)

Our participants fall asleep quite regularly. In fact, it's a well-known problem in MRI research.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Brain on Psychedelics by belkarx on Thursday October 06, 2022 @01:58PM (#33111643)

Using an Upright MRI [0] (created to help claustrophobic patients and is relatively open) might help.

[0] http://www.uprightmrideerfield.com/5-reasons-to-choose-uprig...

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Brain on Psychedelics by libraryatnight on Thursday October 06, 2022 @11:16AM (#33109298)

MRI machines are the stuff of nightmares for me, I can't imagine the hell that would be.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Brain on Psychedelics by agumonkey on Thursday October 06, 2022 @11:28AM (#33109506)

Depends on the model though, on small one where there's really no room around your head, which is locked in a cage is really edging on psychological torture depending on your anxiety level.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Brain on Psychedelics by Ntrails on Thursday October 06, 2022 @12:33PM (#33110442)

I had an hour long (ish, maybe a bit longer?) brain scan in an MRI for a control in a phd friend's study. I snoozed and the only notable thing was me sleepily snapping at her for waking me up to tell me what was happening...

The ear defender/headphones were pretty great

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Brain on Psychedelics by scajanus on Thursday October 06, 2022 @12:52PM (#33110758)

Same for me (and plenty of coworkers who took part in the same studies) -- hardest part of taking part in the fMRI experiments was staying awake through it.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Brain on Psychedelics by Broken_Hippo on Thursday October 06, 2022 @01:07PM (#33110956)

To everyone reading: There is a cage on your head if you get a scan of your head. But if they are looking at your abdomen, you'll find a different sort of device over your midsection. I'm guessing that they have stuff for other parts as well.

I don't personally mind the cage, and a lot of models have a mirror so that your field of vision is greater than the tube. (I get regular MRIs due to MS and a pancreas cyst)

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Brain on Psychedelics by agumonkey on Thursday October 06, 2022 @01:15PM (#33111056)

Apologies for not being precise :)

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Brain on Psychedelics by Mezzie on Thursday October 06, 2022 @10:55PM (#33116921)

Huh this just made me realize I never keep my eyes open in the MRI machine. (I also have MS). Now I'm wondering which is more common.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Brain on Psychedelics by Broken_Hippo on Friday October 07, 2022 @04:59AM (#33118919)

I keep my eyes open as they put me in the tube, and close them when the test starts. I'm always afraid that I'll think something looks interesting and move my head while trying to see it. I might find an MRI relaxing, but I still don't wanna do it twice.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Brain on Psychedelics by Mezzie on Friday October 07, 2022 @09:49AM (#33121263)

I hate when I have to do them twice. I twitch a lot. It's the worst, and I'm uncomfortable, and the tech is stressed because it screws up the scheduling and ugh it's just the worst.

Or when I have to pee in the middle.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Brain on Psychedelics by ta988 on Thursday October 06, 2022 @11:50PM (#33117215)

Yes these are the coils used for excitation and reading. But really what you hear are the gradient coils inside the magnet assembly.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Brain on Psychedelics by colordrops on Thursday October 06, 2022 @11:42AM (#33109700)

Psychedelics have caused heavy anxiety for me even when sitting next to a beautiful mountaib stream. I've had a panic attack in an MRI while sober. Couldn't imagine doing both at the same time.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Brain on Psychedelics by MarkMarine on Thursday October 06, 2022 @10:26PM (#33116747)

Might just wipe those fears out of your mind if you were in the right mental space and coached through it. As I understand it, this is showing promise in treating the kind of panic attack/PTSD trauma you're describing. I only mention PTSD because it's been a problem for some of my friends and they are very interested in the positive news about psychedelics as treatment options.

From my perspective, a long acting treatment done via psychedelics and a guide, in a controlled environment, with no need to repeatedly take a drug and no day to day side effects of that drug (because, you're not taking one) is incredibly promising. Unfortunately, this is exactly the kind of treatment that the business behind medicine doesn't like, so I'm quite skeptical if it's ever brought to market.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Brain on Psychedelics by giantg2 on Thursday October 06, 2022 @12:05PM (#33110030)

I was wondering if the inconsistent outcomes they were talking about could be due to environemnt/scenario influence. Like how people have completely different experiences based on their mindset, environment, etc prior to taking the drug. In my stupid mind, it's as if the drug doesn't have simply one effect, but enhances whatever is there already. Sort of like how some medications have different effects at different doses or in combination with different medicines.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Brain on Psychedelics by calt on Thursday October 06, 2022 @12:57PM (#33110839)

I actually kind of like an MRI. The rhythmic pulsing is relaxing.

But obligatory relevant xkcd https://xkcd.com/1453/

> Our fMRI study found that subjects performing simple memory tasks showed activity in the parts of the brain associated with loud noises clautrophobia, and the removal of jewelry.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Brain on Psychedelics by Broken_Hippo on Thursday October 06, 2022 @01:04PM (#33110925)

I actually kind of like an MRI. The rhythmic pulsing is relaxing.

Same, very much so. I often lament that a voice comes through and talks to me.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Brain on Psychedelics by Velc on Thursday October 06, 2022 @06:17PM (#33114832)

I thought I was the only one, great to hear others enjoy them also.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Brain on Psychedelics by RHSman2 on Thursday October 06, 2022 @03:29PM (#33112849)

I have fallen asleep in MRI’s everytime. I find the experience incredibly relaxing. I also am very sensitive to mind altering substances.

Go figure

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Brain on Psychedelics by antihero on Thursday October 06, 2022 @03:49PM (#33113140)

Try being strapped to a hospital bed in foreign country experiencing the most traumatic hallucinations and unending loops that are beyond the imaginable. Do not fuck with strong acid.

[ Parent | on HN ]