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Re:Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees by SilverBirch on Thursday October 06, 2022 @05:07AM (#33106161)
There's a massive difference between constructive dismissal and managing out. Managing out can often be as simple as a manager saying "Hey, your performance isn't great your not on course to get any bonus or raise this year" and the employee deciding "Fuck this, I'm off". Instead of in normal times, where you're trying to retain people and the conversation is often "Hey, you're making really good progress but there's just a few areas we need to work on which is why your compensation isn't quite where you would like it".

There's a thousand reasons people stay or leave companies and just slightly adjusting how much you're working to keep people can often be the difference in the attrition rate.

Re:Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees by votepaunchy on Thursday October 06, 2022 @05:16AM (#33106206)
Do I understand correctly, you are saying that 5-20% of your employees will quit after having a conversation simply noting that he or she will not be receiving a bonus or raise this year, or similar? That’s really quite tenuous, especially in this economy.
Re:Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees by joenot443 on Thursday October 06, 2022 @06:57AM (#33106724)
As a minor anecdote, I'm a FAANG SWE and if I was told I wouldn't be receiving a raise OR bonus this year, I'd absolutely start looking for other work. Most FAANG employees get recruiters reaching out daily, the thought of greener pastures is always on their mind.
Re:Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees by oblio on Thursday October 06, 2022 @07:52AM (#33107050)
Not if the well dries up because all those companies start firing thousands of people.
Re:Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees by taylodl on Thursday October 06, 2022 @10:47AM (#33108891)
Don't flatter yourself. We're all getting recruiters reaching out daily. They're mostly ignored because 99.999% of the time it's a lateral move - doing the same thing at a different place. Not interested.

If anything, being a FAANG SWE puts you at a disadvantage for ever having stability. Financially risky startups would love to have you, but a lot of industry verticals simply won't take a look at you because they figure you wouldn't be interested or you're perceived as a flight risk. Thing is, if you plan to retire from this profession those are the kinds of jobs you're going to need.

Re:Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees by joenot443 on Friday October 07, 2022 @12:19PM (#33123375)
Unless you think it's flattering to have recruiters reaching out, I don't see when I was flattering myself.

Based on your understanding, if other companies perceived me as being a flight risk because I'd worked in FAANG (?) I probably wouldn't be interested in them either, so it sounds like the system's working as expected.

Re:Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees by ryandrake on Thursday October 06, 2022 @12:45PM (#33110663)
I think it highly depends on the current economic environment. During the past 10+ years of bull market, suddenly losing your raise or bonus would immediately cause people to start looking for a new job. When a recession is on the horizon, with expected job market tightening, people are more likely to accept it, hold on to whatever job they have, and ride it out.
Re:Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees by munchbunny on Thursday October 06, 2022 @07:31AM (#33106927)
It’s not just that. It’s usually a combination of low bonuses/stock rewards, minimal raises, no promotions, uninteresting/less meaningful work, and less effort put into coaching them. Basically all of the stuff managers should be doing normally.

If someone’s on the receiving end of all of those things they’ll usually leave sooner or later. Who wouldn’t want to?

Re:Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees by twobitshifter on Thursday October 06, 2022 @10:30AM (#33108646)
I suppose if you thought that the comp would return in the near future and the work environment was better than you'd find elsewhere.
Re:Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees by nisegami on Thursday October 06, 2022 @11:34AM (#33109589)
Definitely sounds like constructive dismissal to me, but IANAL.
Re:Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees by rusk on Thursday October 06, 2022 @03:25PM (#33112804)
It’s difficult to prove intent, but it’s also difficult to implement policy without a paper trail
Re:Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees by __s on Thursday October 06, 2022 @07:36AM (#33106954)
Bonus can represent 20 to 40 percent of one's total comp at these companies
Re:Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees by nullc on Thursday October 06, 2022 @05:19AM (#33106226)
I believe with the way amazon comp in structured, not getting a bonus or a raise is actually a pay cut for many people, because they have vesting equity that is offset by front loaded cash bonuses.

Even small pay cuts are pretty good at getting people to quit. (uh particularly talented ones that have many options ...)

Re:Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees by SilverBirch on Thursday October 06, 2022 @08:54AM (#33107624)
That was just one example of managing out that is clearly no where near "constructive dismissal". There are lots and lots of levers that management can pull to either reduce or increase attrition, and lots of them are about the employer choosing not to give extra support rather than taking away the basics. The normal attrition rate at an average company is already 10%, so pushing it a bit up isn't particularly difficult, especially at these big tech companies that traditionally have done a lot to try and keep people.
Re:Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees by marcus_holmes on Thursday October 06, 2022 @07:58AM (#33107091)
Not giving a bonus can be grounds for a constructive dismissal claim (at least in the UK):

https://employmenttribunal.claims/employment-law/bonus-dispu...

Re:Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees by filoleg on Thursday October 06, 2022 @06:10PM (#33114747)
Well, if they didn't get a bonus for underperforming/not hitting the target, that's totally fine. Which is what is happening here, the target bar simply got raised.

As for an employee quitting on their own accord before the bonus dispersal date (which they otherwise hit the bar to receive), every tech company I worked for or have friends working at, they have pretty fair systems for dealing with it.

Generally, there is a cutoff date (which is usually about 4-6 months before the bonus disbursal/announcement date). If you leave at any point after that date, but before the bonus announcement/disbursal date, you still get your bonus in full. If you quit before the cutoff date, it gets prorated based on how many days you were an employee between the previous cut-off date and the upcoming one. There is also usually an extra nuance in math for people who just started working at the company and been there less than a year, but that detail is largely irrelevant.

For a specific example, at MSFT, they had a cut-off date somewhere mid-june. The bonus got announced early september and disbursed in mid-second half of september. If you quit at any point after that date in June, you get your full bonus. If you quit exactly 2 months before the cutoff date, lets, say mid April, you get full_bonus*10/12.

Re:Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees by w0de0 on Thursday October 06, 2022 @09:06AM (#33107722)
Constructive dismissal issimpky convincing someone to leave without the burden to your cowardice and the company’s revenue that firing entails. You are playing semantic games - your described practice is not something different.

It is dishonesty in the service of profit, the simplest type of corruption available. Euphemisms are always just euphemisms.