News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Stadia died because no one trusts Google by _HMCB_ on Saturday October 01, 2022 @11:30PM (#33052561)
I’d be curious as to the elevator pitch presented to Google execs and why they bought into it. Wasn’t anyone thinking about the issues you brought up? Seems like fundamental issues. To think they spent millions and millions on this service only to close it down in short order. Typical Google but what other company does this repeatedly with 4-year precision.
Re:Stadia died because no one trusts Google by wokwokwok on Sunday October 02, 2022 @01:06AM (#33053032)
You’ve just got to look back through history and you’ll see the same thing play out, and controversially it’s not actually the worst play in the long run.

1) pick a high risk / high reward opportunity

2) invest heavily in the fundamental tech behind it and see if it works out

3) when it doesn’t work out, shut it down, take the tech you built and use it for something.

So for example, let’s look at dart.

There was never any way it was going to work, really… but, at the time, maaaaybe, it could have worked. …and google would have owned the web stack entirely.

…but, they’ve put it to work in flutter now and that’s going ok.

The point I’m making is that if you look at this from the perspective of investment in fundamental technology (Ie. Steaming video say) what’s better?

A) develop it with no specific use case

B) work really hard on a very difficult use case that might end up failing

If you can afford it, the latter is maybe not the worst way of doing it.

You end up with battle tested technology and no users to bother you for the made-in-a-rush service you made to go with it.

You could easily argue that more successfully outcomes could come from less risky investments… but do you want 50 kind of bleh services in your portfolio?

I don’t think google does. They want a few unicorns.

You don’t get unicorns by playing it safe.

So… I’m not saying it’s the right strategy, or even a good one, but from that perspective you can see why you’d try.

Bet: we’ll see something fancy using the streaming tech roll out eventually, probably linked to a more successful existing product, it will be unremarkable and well liked by most people.

Re:Stadia died because no one trusts Google by josephg on Sunday October 02, 2022 @02:38AM (#33053501)
The counterpoint is that their strategy is burning trust in their brand. New products depend on early adopters to mature and grow. But I’ve been burned by Google’s product ADHD so many times now that I refuse to be an early adopter of any of their products. If gmail came out today, I’d assume it would be shut down in a few years and I wouldn’t touch it. The only Google products I’d use today are Android, Chrome, Search, Gmail and sometimes firebase or Meet. I think Google meet is the only thing in that list less than 10 years old. (And even then it’s just rebranded Hangouts).

Every time Google shuts down a product, they hurt their reputation. They’re pissing in the pool that future Google products need to survive. At this point I don’t know if Google can make successful new products because nobody trusts their follow through.

Re:Stadia died because no one trusts Google by MattPalmer1086 on Sunday October 02, 2022 @03:18AM (#33053719)
Yes, completely agree, same here. I don't touch Google products any more, and it's mostly because I don't trust they will remain available.

I only use the products that are very unlikely to go away quickly. Search, Gmail and Android. I'd like to get off Gmail for other reasons, but it's a pain. And I mostly use DuckDuckGo for search these days.

Re:Stadia died because no one trusts Google by kelnos on Sunday October 02, 2022 @04:07AM (#33053951)
> I'd like to get off Gmail for other reasons, but it's a pain.

I used to think that, but I was actually surprised how easy it was to get off GMail. I gave Fastmail my credit card number, clicked a few buttons in their UI to get my mail transferred over, moved my MX records, and I was done. I ended up migrating contacts, too, but that was just a couple more clicks in Fastmail's UI, as they have an OAuth flow that interacts directly with Google's APIs.

I still haven't migrated my calendar, and a few other email-adjacent things, but it's fine; it can all operate this way until I'm ready.

Edit: right after posting, realized you might be using an @gmail.com address, so yeah, migrating off GMail in that case is much harder than if you have a custom domain.

Re:Stadia died because no one trusts Google by technion on Sunday October 02, 2022 @05:05AM (#33054265)
I've always used a custom domain not with google, but the reason I would find it hard to get off gmail is the list of sites that only offer a 'login with gmail' with the only alternative being 'login with facebook'. And the list is getting consistently bigger, with many developers getting in on the trend of "passwords are too risky, just let Google handle it". If there is ever a day Google turns off sso for free Gmail users it will be a big one.
Re:Stadia died because no one trusts Google by kelnos on Tuesday October 04, 2022 @05:17PM (#33087060)
Wow, really? I have only once run into a website that does not accept signup with simple email/password (crates.io, of all things, which requires a GitHub login). Not saying they don't exist, and it sucks that you've run into them and needed them, but I'm really surprised.

Beyond that, especially given that I assume (hope?) such sites are rare, a simple workaround would be to have a GMail account just for such signups, and set it up to forward to your main mail account hosted elsewhere. I think that's a pretty small price to pay if you really do want to get off GMail.

In my case, I still have my GSuite (or Google Workspaces or whatever they hell they're calling it now) account (really the only difference is now my MX records point somewhere else), so if I did have any sites left where I hadn't switched from Google auth to email/password auth, it would still work.

Re:Stadia died because no one trusts Google by Macha on Sunday October 02, 2022 @07:49AM (#33055095)
I can think of only three or four times in the last 5 years I've encountered sites that only offer third party SSO, and all of them I decided as not being worth my time. It's about as many as have decided that magic links are a sign in option they want. Sites are thankfully hesitant to play around too much with sign up options that might exclude some users
Re:Stadia died because no one trusts Google by MattPalmer1086 on Sunday October 02, 2022 @04:18AM (#33054010)
Exactly! When I finally do migrate, it will use my own domain.
Re:Stadia died because no one trusts Google by sogen on Monday October 03, 2022 @01:58PM (#33071231)
"Google's ADHD", I'm stealing that :)
Re:Stadia died because no one trusts Google by pragmatic on Sunday October 02, 2022 @09:31AM (#33055723)
Is flutter going ok?

It’s a product I’ve shied away from because Google.

Angular (and angularjs before it) are typical Google engineering. (Too much rxjs solutioning in search of a problem to solve. Compare it to svelte using an observable interface to get 80% of the benefit with the rest of the absolute insanity that junior devs bounce off and make angular a dreaded framework compared to react, vue, svelte)

Google is an anti-brand at this point.

Re:Stadia died because no one trusts Google by pas on Sunday October 02, 2022 @04:25AM (#33054050)
flutter may be ok, but it's again something that's hard to relate to, because it's using fuckin Dart. and artificial barrier.

they should use TS. or kotlin or Swift ... or just Java.

look at React. the simplest piece of shit and it's eating the world because people got into the cult of React. similarly with Go.

...

streaming tech: they'll just fold it into YouTube somehow.

unicorns: did they ever launch any since Gmail?

Re:Stadia died because no one trusts Google by wokwokwok on Sunday October 02, 2022 @05:20AM (#33054355)
Android

Maps

Docs

Go

/shrug

I dunno, I think it’s fair to say they’ve had a few winners.

Re:Stadia died because no one trusts Google by michaelt on Sunday October 02, 2022 @06:26AM (#33054667)
Android, by acquiring Android Inc. Maps, by acquiring Keyhole and Where 2 Technologies. Docs, by acquiring Upstartle. YouTube, by buying YouTube Inc.

Got any winners that they started themselves instead of acquiring?

Credit where it's due though: A lot of companies destroy their acquisitions, which hasn't happened in these cases.

Re:Stadia died because no one trusts Google by UncleMeat on Sunday October 02, 2022 @12:27PM (#33057412)
Photos. More than 1B users at this point.
Re:Stadia died because no one trusts Google by pas on Sunday October 02, 2022 @07:33AM (#33055013)
Okay, Drive/Docs/Photos qualifies I think. (But also fuck 'em for ruining Picasa :D) Google Workspaces has to be a money printer.

Go doesn't make them money directly. Similarly k8s is great, but doesn't make them money. (At best it's the classic commoditize your complement strategy. Though I have no idea where Go comes from. Well, I guess if you hire enough language developers you're bound to eventually get a new language, even if it's a bit meh, so they at least matched React in that.)

Re:Stadia died because no one trusts Google by Macha on Sunday October 02, 2022 @07:51AM (#33055104)
My feeling was Go was a project that came out of the idea of making a language to reflect the ethos of their C++ style guide from years ago. The focus on reducing complexity felt like a way to make it easy for them to hire/onboard grads etc.
Re:Stadia died because no one trusts Google by nicbou on Sunday October 02, 2022 @12:30AM (#33052862)
The further your lifestyle is from that of a Silicon Valley developer, the further FAANG is from serving your needs.

No one devs on a 8 year old budget laptop or a slow internet connection. Some devs forget that those even exist.

Re:Stadia died because no one trusts Google by Macha on Sunday October 02, 2022 @07:52AM (#33055110)
It's very common on HN to forget that Macs have only a 10% share of the laptop market for sure
Re:Stadia died because no one trusts Google by nicbou on Sunday October 02, 2022 @08:22AM (#33055284)
Even high end Windows laptops have a small market share. Same for 4K displays.

Fast internet isn't a given either. It's slow in some areas, and slower in most hotels. I've had sub-10mbps, 1500ms ping internet quite often, especially while travelling.

That's without counting cultural assumptions SV companies make, especially when their staff is lacking in cultural diversity.

Re:Stadia died because no one trusts Google by kanbara on Sunday October 02, 2022 @12:37AM (#33052900)
maybe for some, but not for all. or do you think making phones and computers is out of touch from normal people’s needs?
Re:Stadia died because no one trusts Google by heavyset_go on Saturday October 01, 2022 @11:40PM (#33052611)
I think some of Google's strategy is identifying new markets and potential rivals, and then throwing their resources at them until they dominate the market or buy/crush the competition. Building a sustainably profitable product is ancillary to that and not much of a factor initially.
Re:Stadia died because no one trusts Google by hinkley on Sunday October 02, 2022 @12:36AM (#33052895)
IMO, Google died the day they announced they weren’t going to work on anything with less than a billion dollar revenue potential.

It sounds like a financially smart thing to do but it cuts your legs out because nobody is doing research anymore, and you select for people with half a billion potential and an eagerness to lie.

Re:Stadia died because no one trusts Google by bombcar on Saturday October 01, 2022 @11:59PM (#33052696)
I suspect this was exactly it; Google saw a potential for something like this, wanted in on it, and when the whole market didn't pan out, abandoned it.

Microsoft did something similar with the Xbox (people forget that it was basically done because they were afraid that consoles would become general purpose computers and destroy the Windows monopoly) but they also actually made a business with it and made it profitable in its own right.

Re:Stadia died because no one trusts Google by ahartmetz on Sunday October 02, 2022 @06:16AM (#33054617)
In his book "The Road Ahead", which was full of bad predictions by the way, Bill Gates wrote something about the competition between computers and TVs and about set-top boxes. The original Xbox makes sense in that context. It was a bottom-up project initially, but its approval probably had something to do with Bill Gates' set-top box ideas. Microsoft Bob was another related development (cf. the Xbox dashboard, computing appliance).
Re:Stadia died because no one trusts Google by ghaff on Sunday October 02, 2022 @09:23AM (#33055672)
Go back to the 90s or maybe early 2000s, and there was definitely this widespread vision of a media hub connected to the TV in the living room as the primary home entertainment device (or even more broadly home control). People weren't necessarily in broad agreement about the nature of such a device but it was certainly a more centralized view of the world than what ultimately has ended up playing out.
Re:Stadia died because no one trusts Google by bombcar on Sunday October 02, 2022 @12:16PM (#33057277)
If you replace “TV” with mobile phone we actually got pretty close to the predictions.
Re:Stadia died because no one trusts Google by ghaff on Sunday October 02, 2022 @12:30PM (#33057449)
True. Many people primarily interact with entertainment, news, etc. through a single connected device. It's just much more individualized and on the go interactions than it was envisioned in the guise of a home theater/living room hub.
Re:Stadia died because no one trusts Google by GekkePrutser on Saturday October 01, 2022 @11:59PM (#33052697)
But in this case they didn't do any of that?
Re:Stadia died because no one trusts Google by heavyset_go on Sunday October 02, 2022 @01:20AM (#33053101)
I see it as a foray into the cloud gaming market and a way to stifle competition. Once Google throws its weight into the game, it might be harder for smaller companies to keep up or even secure enough funding to compete.

It's not always going to work out, but I do think Google's actions helped stifle competition in that market. Google could have successfully stopped another company from blowing up in that market and becoming a real competitor to worry about in other markets down the line.

Re:Stadia died because no one trusts Google by Macha on Sunday October 02, 2022 @07:57AM (#33055135)
It certainly made publishers put pressure on nvidia to block their games from its "stream your own steam library" service, because it gave them the idea they could get service exclusivity bonuses and full retail price for the privilege, something I doubt they'll roll back just because that model has failed for now