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Re:Why Men Are Hard to Help by BlargMcLarg on Saturday October 01, 2022 @01:25PM (#33048246)
>In particular, the dramatic rebalancing of power relations between men and women over the last few decades has rendered old modes of masculinity — especially men's role as family breadwinner — obsolete.

They aren't obsolete. The mere notion of this is laughable to anyone spending a bit of time looking around.

What happened was the standards cranking up to 11 and either the rewards aren't visible, or they simply aren't there. In addition, there's far more entertainment available and children are no longer seen as an automatic achievement. Some might even say, having kids is actively discouraged in the upper circles.

>Feminist writer Susan Faludi has pointed out that many men are "clinging to a phantom status." She's right, of course.

Based on what? I don't necessarily see men clinging onto a "phantom status" as much as their (potential) lover, family, friends and business network not giving a hoot unless their status is deemed great. Men are still primarily judged on status, not the other way around.

>He is not the only one. A common thread running through many of the challenges facing men is the culture shock of women's economic independence.

The article really misses nuance on this whole "economic independence" thing. Yes, women got "more economically independent". No, they can't just start families on their own and get by. In many countries, they can't even get a decent home (dual income households say hello). Check the demands of typical college-educated women, and then compare with the available pool of men. Now compare to the current education system, the way society works and what is happening with starting wages. There simply aren't enough men for all those women, and it's evident most women aren't willing to drop their standards yet. Meanwhile, men aren't willing to "step up", as popular lingo would like to claim.

The author correctly identifies so many things, only to come to the most safe conclusion. The same conclusion which has yet to be proven correct.

Re:Why Men Are Hard to Help by scythe on Saturday October 01, 2022 @02:15PM (#33048656)
>The article really misses nuance on this whole "economic independence" thing. Yes, women got "more economically independent". No, they can't just start families on their own and get by.

To be pithy, we went from men having economic independence and women not to a situation where neither (save the highest earners) has economic independence. Couples are now interdependent and single people often need roommates. If you're economically independent, by definition you don't have to concern yourself with your partner's income.

Re:Why Men Are Hard to Help by rhino369 on Saturday October 01, 2022 @03:47PM (#33049419)
Agreed. In many ways the conclusion about outdated status is ass-backwards. The men being left behind are opting out--skipping a career and a (planned) family. Successful men are the ones still clinging to the "outdated" view that they are the breadwinner.

If I didn't feel like I had to provide for a family, I'd get drunk at night and play video games all-day. Certainly better than working 60 hours a week.

Re:Why Men Are Hard to Help by throwawaysleep on Saturday October 01, 2022 @01:39PM (#33048371)
Yeah a lot of this was women assuming what happens with guys. A richer guy gets a hotter wife, so a richer woman should get a better guy right? Nope.
Re:Why Men Are Hard to Help by onion2k on Saturday October 01, 2022 @02:11PM (#33048613)
That's not quite accurate. A rich man gets a hotter wife by most men's standards because most men's standards of "a hot woman" are very similar. The same is true for rich women, but women's standards for what "a hot man" is vary far more. Both are attaining what they think is hot though.
Re:Why Men Are Hard to Help by phpisthebest on Saturday October 01, 2022 @02:45PM (#33048924)
A few years ago OK Cupid released data that flies in the face of your narrative, and it showed based on their research that men have a far wider range of acceptable looks than women do, at least of the user of their app
Re:Why Men Are Hard to Help by cloudier on Saturday October 01, 2022 @06:49PM (#33050908)
That’s not the full context on the data OK Cupid released.

Men tended to rate women in a normal distribution, but they also mostly messaged women in the uppermost range of attractiveness.

Women tended to rate men more harshly, rating most men below average attractiveness, but they also tended to message those "below average" men regardless of their assessment.

Re:Why Men Are Hard to Help by dehugger on Wednesday October 05, 2022 @01:36AM (#33091682)
I struggle to think that data from a dating app represents the majority of women accurately.

Most women don't use dating apps to find long term partners, at least among my peers and online circles. The common use case is casual hookups, which would certainly place a higher emphasis on physical attributes.

Conversely, I have met/seen many men looking for long term partners on those same sites, which should place a higher emphasis on compatibility.

Re:Why Men Are Hard to Help by onion2k on Saturday October 01, 2022 @02:50PM (#33048960)
Men on a dating site will message pretty much everyone. That doesn't mean those are the people they find hottest. In fact, men are often reluctant to approach really hot women because they think they'll be rejected.
Re:Why Men Are Hard to Help by phpisthebest on Saturday October 01, 2022 @03:02PM (#33049058)
>>That doesn't mean those are the people they find hottest. In fact, men are often reluctant to approach really hot women because they think they'll be rejected.

Pretty sure that is a result of experience not just some miss placed belief

>Men on a dating site will message pretty much everyone

While true, the data was not just placed on messaging. Other data seems to back this result as well.

Re:Why Men Are Hard to Help by scythe on Saturday October 01, 2022 @02:19PM (#33048699)
In order to use your money to help you on the dating market, you have to approach. Nobody is going up to people in bars and asking "will you buy me a drink?". However, social norms are nowhere near making this practical for most women.
Re:Why Men Are Hard to Help by isthisthingon99 on Saturday October 01, 2022 @01:34PM (#33048326)
> There simply aren't enough men for all those women

A man I know is attempting to add a new wife to his household every 5 years...

Re:Why Men Are Hard to Help by somethrower on Thursday October 06, 2022 @03:10PM (#33112632)
Really not sure when it happened, but you're right, women on dating apps now have insanely high standards. I used dating apps around 2013, had honestly some pretty lame photos and not much of a profile, and consistently went on dates with very attractive women. Trying again now, in 2022, with much better photos, and much more to say - I almost literally cannot get a date. The amount of times women have set up dates with me, only to bail or simply wordlessly unmatch at the last minute, is staggering. These are women that frankly I mostly wouldn't even bother to approach in real life. My guess is that, as online dating has become socially acceptable, the scene is flooded with men who are of course happy to pursue anyone with a decent level of attractiveness. Women are swimming in a sea of positive attention. Their options are nearly infinite. I feel horrible for the future generations of young men.