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Re:Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we ex... by Ekaros on Sunday September 25, 2022 @04:06PM (#32975502)
Don't even go to those idiots over there who uses these weird units for measuring temperature, distance, weight and ugh volume...

When we actually have this well designed system where everything fits beautifully together...

Re:Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we ex... by llanowarelves on Sunday September 25, 2022 @04:14PM (#32975594)
The metric "interface" has nice "round" numbers, but the implementation idk:

"In the SI, the standard metre is defined as exactly 1/299,792,458 of the distance that light travels in a second."

"The kilogram was originally defined as the mass of one cubic decimetre of water at 4 °C, standardized as the mass of a man-made artefact of platinum-iridium held in a laboratory in France, which was used until a new definition was introduced in May 2019. Replicas made in 1879 at the time of the artefact's fabrication and distributed to signatories of the Metre Convention serve as de facto standards of mass in those countries. Additional replicas have been fabricated since as additional countries have joined the convention. The replicas were subject to periodic validation by comparison to the original, called the IPK. It became apparent that either the IPK or the replicas or both were deteriorating, and are no longer comparable: they had diverged by 50 μg since fabrication, so figuratively, the accuracy of the kilogram was no better than 5 parts in a hundred million or a proportion of 5x10−8:1. The accepted redefinition of SI base units replaced the IPK with an exact definition of the Planck constant, which defines the kilogram in terms of the second and metre."

Re:Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we ex... by 12baad4db82 on Sunday September 25, 2022 @04:54PM (#32976114)
Not sure what you are trying to say with your quoted phrases.

There was an issue with the standard for the Kilogram, which was recognised then corrected by introducing a definition which is based on physically measurable phenomenon. The new approach allows independent experiments to derive the value of the Kilogram.

That seems to me like a process that works, and I struggle to think of a better outcome.

Re:Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we ex... by chungy on Sunday September 25, 2022 @06:27PM (#32977034)
> Not sure what you are trying to say with your quoted phrases.

That the metric system is just as arbitrary as the customary units. Things like the meter and (kilo)gram were based on arbitrary objects rather than anything objective. They've since been redefined using physical constants to come close enough to the old reference objects. (And the US customary units are officially defined as exact fractions from the SI units -- making the whole world happy to have exact measurements regardless of the system you use.)

At least the customary units have nice divisors. Just saying.

Re:Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we ex... by fanf2 on Monday September 26, 2022 @07:58AM (#32981999)
The metric system was based on the existing unit of time and the dimensions of the earth. The metre was originally defined as 1/40,000,000 of the circumference of the earth (through the poles and Paris). From the metre they derived units of weight and volume.

There was some debate at the time about using a pendulum with a 1s period to define the metre, but it was known to be less accurately reproducible than the geodetic version.

Their aim was to define a system that could in principle be recreated from scratch anywhere on Earth without necessarily relying on access to the physical prototypes. In practice the relative imprecision of the original measurements compared to the later demands of science and engineering meant that the prototypes became the definition.

It’s interesting to compare with the British Imperial units reform in the 1820s. Part of that act specifies how to recreate the prototypes from physical properties of the units. When the Palace of Westminster burned down in the 1830s the ancient prototypes were destroyed. But the replacements were recreated from copies, not from the specification in the act. And not much later, the official definition was based on the metric system because the metric standards were manufactured to much greater quality.

Re:Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we ex... by dkbrk on Sunday September 25, 2022 @11:06PM (#32978898)
> That the metric system is just as arbitrary as the customary units

No-one claims it isn't arbitrary. Any choice of units is arbitrary. "Not being arbitrary" just isn't a desideratum when considering what makes a good system of units.

The main desirable property is coherence [0], which SI has.

But I don't think anyone would claim SI is perfect. It's not; it's got at least a couple of warts. One is that "kg" is a base unit and is prefixed. But that's about the worst of it.

CGS is also coherent, but has a similar problem with a prefixed base unit (in this case, cm).

US Customary units is not only incoherent, but does things like conflate mass and force (lb is a technically a measure of force, so is the long/short ton, and slug is the proper unit for mass) and has far too many derived units that measure the same thing (e.g. ft lb/s, hp and BTU/h, vs just W).

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coherence_(units_of_measuremen...

Re:Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we ex... by russellbeattie on Sunday September 25, 2022 @04:39PM (#32975950)
We should start first be redefining the second: 9,192,631,770 oscillations of a cesium atom. It's too long anyways, we can easily perceive time down to at least 1/60th of that.

So let's call it 150 million oscillations, and refer to it simply as "time", since the word second only makes sense in context of an analog clock anyways. Then we can start rounding the other weights and measures accordingly until everything is nice and clean. It appeals to the OCD in me, despite the societal chaos that would ensure.

But then the universe will undoubtedly throw random numbers at us like π or the fine-structure constant and mess it all up.

Re:Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we ex... by Ekaros on Sunday September 25, 2022 @04:17PM (#32975636)
So what are the "imperial" Volts and Amperes?
Re:Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we ex... by function_seven on Sunday September 25, 2022 @04:44PM (#32976005)
As an unashamed imperial units enthusiast, now I’m sad we don’t have different ones for current and potential.

But at least we still have horsepower! My PSU is a 3/4-horse unit. My toaster oven is a full horsepower.

I like it.

Re:Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we ex... by mrguyorama on Monday September 26, 2022 @01:36PM (#32985899)
Your battery-electric vehicle has a capacity of 70 thousand horsepower-hours
Re:Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we ex... by function_seven on Monday September 26, 2022 @05:13PM (#32988500)
Oh boy I wish. I'd only have to recharge like once a year! That's just nuts.

My 70kWh battery holds only 95 horsepower-hours. But I use the British Thermal Unit when talking about energy.

My BEV has 240 kilo-BTUs stored in it.

Re:Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we ex... by timbit42 on Sunday September 25, 2022 @04:55PM (#32976120)
Yeah. Who thought using decimal was a good idea? We should be using dozenal. At least 12 is divisible by 2, 3, 4 and 6, while 10 is only divisible by 2 and 5 so doing thirds and quarters is messy. Being able to do fifths isn't as useful as thirds and quarters and you can multiply 12 by 5 and use 60 if you want to divide by fifths, like clocks do.
Re:Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we ex... by int_19h on Sunday September 25, 2022 @05:28PM (#32976461)
Decimal is a natural convention once you're using fingers to count, which humans usually do while they're figuring it all out.
Re:Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we ex... by Joeri on Monday September 26, 2022 @01:51AM (#32979849)
Not true. You can count knuckles on one hand up to 12, two hands up to 144, or 60 if you’re using fingers of one hand and knuckles of the other. Societies used to count knuckles, which is why duodecimal systems were a lot more popular back then. Way easier for doing fractions and divisions in your head as well.

Decimal is a system best suited for written math.

Re:Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we ex... by int_19h on Monday September 26, 2022 @03:52PM (#32987487)
You can count all kinds of things, but of the pieces of human anatomy, fingers are the most convenient because you can fold them while counting. Which is why they're also by far the most popular things to count worldwide, even if different societies use slightly different ways of doing so.

You can count to 12 that way, too, e.g. by folding the thumb first to indicate 1, and then unfolding it with the rest of the fingers folded when you get to 6. Or you can turn the fist upside down etc. Again, there are many techniques, but counting by folding or unfolding fingers is the simplest and the most obvious, which is why base-10 is the most common.

Re:Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we ex... by pessimizer on Sunday September 25, 2022 @07:13PM (#32977423)
As most of us have successfully figured out counting, we can move on to measurement systems that are more convenient when dividing.
Re:Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we ex... by int_19h on Monday September 26, 2022 @03:52PM (#32987492)
We're too invested into decimal at this point - the cost of the migration would be so immense as to dwarf any benefits from suddenly being able to divide by 3 and 4 easily.
Re:Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we ex... by kevinmchugh on Sunday September 25, 2022 @04:09PM (#32975534)
Yes, it's very strange that the English measure their weight in stone and pounds and their beer in pints.
Re:Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we ex... by EdwardDiego on Sunday September 25, 2022 @04:26PM (#32975760)
In NZ, all legal weights and measures are metric, yet for some stubbornly cultural reason we still tend to discuss height in feet and inches (ladies on dating apps who are discriminating on height will specify that you need to be 6 foot, not 183cm) the weight of a newborn baby in pounds (but only for newborn babies!), and order our beer in pints, which generally means "a large glass of beer somewhere between 400 and 600mL". Also for some reason ordering a "12th" means a "half pint", and I'm really not sure why.

But the good craft beer places have a sign saying what their pints are in millilitres to prevent unpleasant surprises when you were expecting 568mL but got 425mL.

Re:Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we ex... by kevinmchugh on Sunday September 25, 2022 @05:10PM (#32976273)
The "above six foot" rule seems like it's just a round number, but in the US at least:

* height is normally distributed for men.

* The average height of a man is 5'9".

* The standard deviation for men's height is 3".

So six foot is one standard deviation above average. I am sure one or more of the above does not hold for NZ. I just think this is neat, that the commonly stated preference happens to be for one standard deviation above the average.

Re:Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we ex... by avgcorrection on Sunday September 25, 2022 @05:13PM (#32976311)
A neat coincidence only. America consists of lots of ethnicities. Some bring that average up and some bring it down. There’s some preference for intra-ethnicity dating.
Re:Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we ex... by mod on Sunday September 25, 2022 @04:33PM (#32975866)
"Pint" varies in the US as well, when ordering a beer. You're just gonna get whatever glass they have.

They'll probably tell you if they know it's not a true pint, but I expect most bartenders have no idea.

Re:Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we ex... by selectodude on Sunday September 25, 2022 @05:22PM (#32976411)
A lot of the shittier bars will have glasses that look like pints but only hold 14oz, 12oz of beer 2oz of foam.

The German system where there's a line on the glass that needs to be reached by beer under penalty of law puts a smile on my face.

Re:Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we ex... by jrmg on Sunday September 25, 2022 @04:51PM (#32976069)
A pint in the USA is 16 fluid ounces. In the UK (in the ‘imperial’ system) it is 20. [Technically the fluid ounce is also different in the two systems, but not enough to matter at this scale.]

Some US bars will serve imperial pints on request and/or offer them for British or Irish beers.

Re:Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we ex... by fanf2 on Monday September 26, 2022 @08:05AM (#32982060)
The difference is about 10% which is easily noticeable.

Typically in a British pub you will be served beer in a glass that is calibrated as “pint to brim”, and any head on the beer is taken out of the nominal pint. So usually a pint as served is much closer to half a litre.

Re:Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we ex... by mcv on Sunday September 25, 2022 @07:09PM (#32977372)
I feel like I need to specify that the Dutch sometimes coloquially also use pounds and ounces, but Dutch pounds are exactly 500 grams and Dutch ounces 100 grams.
Re:Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we ex... by fanf2 on Monday September 26, 2022 @08:08AM (#32982097)
Crikey, that’s a big ounce! Rough rule of thumb is that an egg is about 2oz.
Re:Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we ex... by avgcorrection on Sunday September 25, 2022 @05:11PM (#32976287)
Imagine if the imperial foot was one centimeter longer. Then men on dating apps would need to be minimum 188cm (because round number).
Re:Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we ex... by JoeAltmaier on Sunday September 25, 2022 @04:45PM (#32976009)
Two pints in a quart! Two quarts in a 'pottle'! Two pottles in a gallon!

Except nobody remembers what a 'pottle' is.

Re:Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we ex... by genewitch on Monday September 26, 2022 @08:03AM (#32982046)
pottle? What about the hay-gallon?
Re:Someday aliens will land and all will be fine until we ex... by int_19h on Sunday September 25, 2022 @05:54PM (#32976742)
Designing a well-fitting system of units is not hard given all the experience we have already. Units of time are the trickiest due to natural cycles, but there are ways to minimize the irregularity.

The problem is getting that design adopted by everyone.