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Re:Tether ordered to produce documents showing backing of US... by bell-cot on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @12:00PM (#32927100)
With some financial engineering, an "absolutely 100% dollar-backed" asset can be backed by a "more than 99% for-sure" mix of assets, which are in turn backed by a "96% good in even the worse case" mish-mash, which are in turn backed by a "I'd bet my left arm that more than 91% are okay" heap of stuff, which are in turn backed by a "we have checked on 84% of 'em" pile of smelly things, which are in turn...
Re:Tether ordered to produce documents showing backing of US... by metacritic12 on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @12:22PM (#32927433)
Much less the case after 2008.

And definitely was never the case if that chain of assets had the same par value.

E.g. a 100% dollar-backed worth $1000 can never be backed by $1000 of B-rated mortgages. It would have been e.g. $2000 of B-rated mortgages. Obviously, this still had a massive flaw as we saw.

The point still stands though that USDT's profits are probably all based on it's float, so they want to go as risky as possible to generate more profits. They get all the upside of high-yield assets, and not the downside.

Re:Tether ordered to produce documents showing backing of US... by zmgsabst on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @01:21PM (#32928294)
To elaborate:

The problem in 2008 is correlated risk — basically, the difference between rolling once per mortgage (uncorrelated defaults) or just once that impacts all the mortgages (correlated defaults). Creating a “more secure” investment out of nominally more “less secure” for investments depends on the risk being uncorrelated, ie every risky investment is a separate roll.

But as we saw in 2008, many people may default at once if the economy becomes unhealthy.

Re:Tether ordered to produce documents showing backing of US... by JumpCrisscross on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @02:18PM (#32929058)
> problem in 2008 is correlated risk — basically, the difference between rolling once per mortgage (uncorrelated defaults) or just once that impacts all the mortgages (correlated defaults)

It was ignoring solvency != liquidity. Most of the structured mortgage products paid out fine. You really can skim cream off crap through payment prioritisation. But that was not clear ex ante. If you’re leveraged or in dire straits, that a security will pay as promised over the coming decade is little comfort when it’s going at a dime on the dollar.

Re:Tether ordered to produce documents showing backing of US... by roflyear on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @02:09PM (#32928926)
The problem with the securities may have been correlated risk, but that didn't cause 2008. 2008 did not have a single problem, it had a lot of problems.
Re:Tether ordered to produce documents showing backing of US... by to11mtm on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @07:08PM (#32932821)
Yup.

-JUST- on the housing side you had Inflated assessments (A lot of places got in trouble for this in the aftermath,) a tendency to do ARMs and being unprepared for an interest spike, NINJA loans, and the general expectation by too many people (both securities handlers and homeowners) about correlated vs individual risk.

On the homeowner side, correlated risk and the subsequent drop in their home's value resulted in a good number of defaults, leading to a second drop in values (lest we forget the 'goodbye parties' some of these people threw in their temper tantrums on defaulting, a coworker of mine was able to buy one of those on the cheap but it needed a lot of repairs.)

We cannot forget however that general the whole populace, both citizen and corporation, were drunk on 'cheap' credit. (Which is my biggest concern about our current situation, I think some people still are.) When they were unable to refinance existing debt on terms as good as before, or rates on other lines of credit went up, it became harder to service said debt.

I can think of at least two cases where 'expansion' efforts in the age of cheap credit (In one case it was expanding a chain, in another it was launching a new line of business,) led to death spirals of the companies in question.

Re:Tether ordered to produce documents showing backing of US... by kevinpet on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @10:48PM (#32934298)
Well, you're only required to mark to market if there's some regulation applicable to you saying you need to mark to market. Otherwise you're being sloppy and foolish, but the only way they can really go after you is to show that you knew it was outright misleading.
Re:Tether ordered to produce documents showing backing of US... by rhodorhoades on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @02:26PM (#32929175)
I can’t tell if this is a joke about financial engineering tether slowing lowering its backing publicly? Maybe a double entendre?

Tether was originally 100% ‘backed’ and after more and more pressure, they literally did that exact same thing with the percent that was backed in USD.

“It’s 100%. Okay, it’s absolutely backed by 99% usd. JK, 96! I think they are at like 74% now publicly backed by USD?

Re:Tether ordered to produce documents showing backing of US... by zen_1 on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @12:20PM (#32927415)
All AAA mortgages, I'm sure.
Re:Tether ordered to produce documents showing backing of US... by onlyrealcuzzo on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @12:56PM (#32927945)
AAA NFT mortgages in the metaverse.
Re:Tether ordered to produce documents showing backing of US... by londons_explore on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @05:59PM (#32932118)
It's all zuckerberg's one meta-house remortgaged a million times...
Re:Tether ordered to produce documents showing backing of US... by andrepd on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @01:21PM (#32928305)
Is AAA even meaningful? Shit ratings were a major part of the 2008 meltdown, but we've all collectively decided to ignore that and keep relying on the big three's Divinely Inspired Appraisal. Sounds odd.
Re:Tether ordered to produce documents showing backing of US... by lazide on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @03:22PM (#32930146)
It is only meaningful in a relative sense - AAA is less likely to be allowed to fail (or maybe actually fail?) than BBb or whatever. Usually.
Re:Tether ordered to produce documents showing backing of US... by GaveDrohl on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @01:00PM (#32928012)
S&P & Moody's would not lie!/s
Re:Tether ordered to produce documents showing backing of US... by belter on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @12:50PM (#32927852)
NFTs All The Way Down...
Re:Tether ordered to produce documents showing backing of US... by ur-whale on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @03:23PM (#32930170)
You've just described the entire (USD-backed or otherwise) world financial system - unless that is - if you have hard assets buried in a hole somewhere in the ground in a place only known to you as well as enough firepower to prevent anyone from taking it by force when you try and access it.
Re:Tether ordered to produce documents showing backing of US... by Grimburger on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @02:20PM (#32929091)
> we have checked on 84% of 'em" pile of smelly things, which are in turn...

For the posterity of this thread American banks are no longer required to hold any reserve requirements at all[1].

Though I guess that is a "different" issue depending on who you ask here.

Ask yourself this - can everyone in the country take their money out at the same time

For these shitty stablecoins: nearly everyone

For the actual money you use everyday: Maybe 2-3% of people can cash out of the system properly.

A system built on trust works until it doesn't.

[1] https://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/reservereq.htm

Re:Tether ordered to produce documents showing backing of US... by jcranmer on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @03:02PM (#32929854)
> For the posterity of this thread American banks are no longer required to hold any reserve requirements at all[1].

That is misleading. Banks are no longer required to hold a certain fraction of their deposits in their bank account at a Federal Reserve bank--that's the reserve requirement that was reduced to 0%. Keep in mind that only money in the bank account qualifies as reserves that requirement; a literal pile of dollar bills would contribute not one cent.

Instead, banks are required to keep on hand sufficient equity for a percentage of their risk-weighted assets--money that, if the assets go to 0, can be raided to make up the losses. The requirement here starts at I believe 8%, and increases if you're a more important bank.

(If I'm computing it correctly, Tether has disclosed a capital ratio of approximately 0%, FWIW. Were Tether actually held to the same standards as a bank, Tether would be considered dangerously undercapitalized if not outright insolvent.)

Re:Tether ordered to produce documents showing backing of US... by Grimburger on Friday September 23, 2022 @09:41AM (#32951837)
> are required to keep on hand sufficient equity for a percentage of their risk-weighted assets

Define "sufficient", give it an actual number...

> Tether has disclosed a capital ratio of approximately 0%

NYAG accounted for 90% of their assets with that big case last year didn't they?

Re:Tether ordered to produce documents showing backing of US... by tptacek on Saturday September 24, 2022 @11:42AM (#32963734)
You didn't say "banks are no longer required to keep sufficient reserves". You said they were no longer required to keep reserves at all.
Re:Tether ordered to produce documents showing backing of US... by rchaud on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @02:57PM (#32929752)
Depositor insurance is why people don't try to take out all their money at the same time.

Stablecoins don't offer that. They have their own stabilizing mechanism where in a crisis, the peg collapses so quickly that it's not even worth trying to take any out after considering peak traffic tx fees.

Re:Tether ordered to produce documents showing backing of US... by lazide on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @03:23PM (#32930167)
Bwaha, you had me in the first half.

Glorious.

Re:Tether ordered to produce documents showing backing of US... by mywittyname on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @03:53PM (#32930636)
What's so funny?

The FDIC has a track record of payouts and they keep meticulous of every bank they insure, going back to the program inception in 1933.

Re:Tether ordered to produce documents showing backing of US... by lazide on Thursday September 22, 2022 @02:21PM (#32942691)
What I found funny (but apparently was easily misunderstood) is how the poster I replied to was talking so seriously and correctly about stabilizing mechanisms in real (as in world) currencies in the first half, then gave the details on the ‘stabilizing’ mechanism of the ‘stable coins’ - which is they collapse and die if the gap gets too big, and it’s impossible to ‘withdraw’ without spending more on tx fees than you’d get out.

Which, I believe is correct and also about as stabilizing as a deadman’s switch on an explosive vest held by an gorilla. Which, hey, gorillas are pretty smart, if they know they aren’t supposed to let go, they’ll try. But it’s not a good idea to spend much time in their vicinity in such a situation.

I’d assumed it was an attempt at dry humor, straight man/ad-absurdism style, which I appreciated.

Re:Tether ordered to produce documents showing backing of US... by drc500free on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @02:33PM (#32929296)
Which is why FDIC insurance is a thing.
Re:Tether ordered to produce documents showing backing of US... by Grimburger on Friday September 23, 2022 @09:39AM (#32951808)
It's financial snake-oil though. You do not want to any own dollars if it ever gets invoked on a big enough scale with a major bank.

They simply do not have your money nor could they realistically insure every persons savings if their was bankruns, it's a system built upon nothing more than trust. When that trust dwindled in recent times, they brought in FDIC to create more trust out of thin air.

Re:Tether ordered to produce documents showing backing of US... by rlucas on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @05:01PM (#32931466)
This is misleading to those who read "plain English" meanings and not familiar with jargon. Banks call "Capital" or "Equity" the unencumbered safe assets like cash they hold.

Banks do have strict Capital requirements.

The "reserve" requirement going to zero is different.