News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:About Lockdown Mode by gregsadetsky on Wednesday September 14, 2022 @05:36PM (#32843721)
Sorry, I'm not sure that I follow. Why would it be a bad idea if some IT departments enabled Lockdown Mode (LM) via MDM..?

The article says that in LM, you can't enrol the device in MDM -- I suppose that if you want LM functionalities, it makes some sense that you wouldn't want parts of your device to be remotely controllable by an entreprise (or your MDM profile overriding some of the Lockdown options..?)

But... I don't understand what you mean by it being a bad thing that IT admins would want Lockdown Mode for everyone. Thanks

Re:About Lockdown Mode by bgro on Wednesday September 14, 2022 @05:49PM (#32843880)
There are a lot of cases where you have to be available on chat. Either sit at your desk and do nothing for 12 hours straight, or do anything you want and just have your phone on you. This could either be a slow day at work, or an actual off day like being on call on a Saturday. A lot of companies aren't going to buy you a separate work phone.

If there's a lazy security option that can be enabled, a lot of companies are just going to inappropriately turn it on because it doesn't bother them that your phone can't do anything fun. That doesn't cost them money. Even if you're a web designer for a small shoe store where obviously nuclear power plant level of security doesn't really make sense.

I remember android phones like 10 years ago or so had some corporate policy option so any time the screen is locked, you need to enter a 20 character password that has uppers, lowers, capitals, symbols, and numbers.

Any patterns / words it decided were too easy to guess were rejected for a password. This wasn't a "Lock after an hour of inactivity." It was "Lock immediately, and set screen timeout to 30 seconds."

Re:About Lockdown Mode by gorgoiler on Thursday September 15, 2022 @02:13AM (#32847780)
I feel very sad to hear people install their employer’s MDM on their personal phones.

It’s kind of like your employer wanting a key to your car when it’s in the company lot, or to check your coat pockets when you leave work, or requiring a vial of your blood.

Some would say that I am privileged to say “nope!” to all of the above, but tacitly requiring employees to bring their own devices and then controlling them with MDM is such an inappropriate use of power that we should be protected from it, by right.

Re:About Lockdown Mode by Terretta on Friday September 16, 2022 @03:35PM (#32870968)
Apple and Microsoft have done it where the MDM need not actually be the device so much as the data container for all things Office. Instead of Mobile Device Mgmt, it’s more Mobile Data Mgmt.

This allows the company to wipe data that actually belongs to them, but a policy doesn’t have to let them see your activity, mails, photos, or even what other apps you have.

If your employer is running policies for accessing your private stuff, send the right people some docs on how to protect company data w/o invading your privacy.

Re:About Lockdown Mode by gorgoiler on Saturday September 17, 2022 @03:24AM (#32875488)
So my prejudice against MDM is out of date. Thanks for the correction!
Re:About Lockdown Mode by jiggawatts on Wednesday September 14, 2022 @10:53PM (#32846403)
Just to add to this: Many IT Security departments reflexively enable the "most secure sounding" option, even if it makes no sense, stops people working, or conflicts with other requirements. Generally there can be no meaningful debate about these settings, because nobody wants to personally wear the risk of disabling a security setting that is already enabled.

In my career I've always tried to enforce only the seamless security that users don't even notice, the ones that "work in the background". Most SecOps people have the opposite notion of this, thinking that systems aren't really secure unless they're in-your-face to the point of being obnoxious and interfering with regular business activities.

It's not secure if it's not theatre.

A random example is the "usage terms" that large orgs make everyone click through when they log in. These do nothing. Some text has never in the history of the world stopped a hacker hacking into a system. Illegal access is illegal whether you tell users about it or not. Crimes are crimes even if you don't have the legal code printed out and visible wherever that crime may be committed. The only users who will actually see the text are staff with contracts, staff that have their details registered with HR, staff that can be conveniently arrested by the police if they break the law. You know who doesn't see that disclaimer? Hackers.

Why does this matter anyway, you ask? Why not just "click accept" and move on with your life? Well... because when you log onto a shit-slow corporate terminal services desktop, that's a process that takes 2-5 minutes on a good day. Roughly half-way-through the process will stop and wait for 30 seconds for that acceptance click. No click, and the whole thing is aborted. It's a test to see if you have the patience to sit there, wasting minutes of your precious life on Earth watching a screen change colours while the system loads, click, and only then have a brief moment of freedom to do other things while the loading continues.

I put up with this every day, because some dingbat in legal thought that crimes will occur if they don't force 15,000 employees to click 'Accept' on text none of them have ever read. Every day.

It's a thousand cuts like that add up to corporate misery, to the point where big vendors are being irresponsible to the public by adding anti-human features like this.

Re:About Lockdown Mode by brokenmachine on Thursday September 15, 2022 @02:26AM (#32847880)
>It's not secure if it's not theatre.

Haha, so true!

Re:About Lockdown Mode by withinboredom on Wednesday September 14, 2022 @06:50PM (#32844531)
I refuse to sign in to my work gmail on my android exactly for this reason. It basically wants to lock down my phone. It doesn’t do that for my iPhone though, but I’m not logged in their either, FWIW.

I refuse to use my personal devices for work, as a matter of principle. Need me to be on call?, flip phones are pretty darn cheap.

Re:About Lockdown Mode by ezfe on Wednesday September 14, 2022 @08:49PM (#32845576)
My work allows us to sign into Teams, Outlook, and Slack without installing MDM profiles which is very nice. I keep notifications off of course, but can access them if needed.
Re:About Lockdown Mode by blep_ on Wednesday September 14, 2022 @06:13PM (#32844136)
This is how you get me to start stubbornly claiming I don't have a smartphone.

If you have special requirements for the devices I use, it's your responsibility to provide separate devices from my personal ones.

Re:About Lockdown Mode by Melatonic on Wednesday September 14, 2022 @08:59PM (#32845658)
Thats literally just a really shitty IT department poorly managing their MDM. And on Android at least the "work profile" is generally completely separate from your usual stuff and (if enrolled properly) the company cannot control major aspects of your phone (just the work profile). The company can remote wipe the work related sections, for example, but not your entire device.

There are settings though for passcode enforcement and whatnot

Re:About Lockdown Mode by saagarjha on Wednesday September 14, 2022 @09:23PM (#32845831)
iOS has this too, I have yet to work at a place that actually utilizes this
Re:About Lockdown Mode by Syonyk on Wednesday September 14, 2022 @06:14PM (#32844142)
> The article says that in LM, you can't enrol the device in MDM

My understanding is that you can't change the MDM settings/enrollment while in Lockdown, but you can enroll in it, and then enable Lockdown, and be fine.

Re:About Lockdown Mode by diebeforei485 on Wednesday September 14, 2022 @10:19PM (#32846227)
It's my phone, I paid a lot of money for it, I don't want some stupid IT people placing arbitrary restrictions on it.

If you want me to use lockdown mode, give me a separate phone.

Re:About Lockdown Mode by austhrow743 on Wednesday September 14, 2022 @10:33PM (#32846306)
Your own personal phone has your employers device fleet management software on it?
Re:About Lockdown Mode by diebeforei485 on Wednesday September 14, 2022 @11:11PM (#32846519)
Yes, because they require it for internal apps. But as "user enrollment" so they are very limited in what they can do. See the table at the bottom of this page[1].

For context this is relatively new and is different from the older way of doing things (device enrollment).

1. https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/user-enrollment-a...

Re:About Lockdown Mode by mike_d on Thursday September 15, 2022 @12:14AM (#32846951)
Does your employer provide a cell phone subsidy? That is how most places do it, they give you some amount of money every month and you sign something that they can enforce policy and seize your device as required.
Re:About Lockdown Mode by michaelt on Thursday September 15, 2022 @05:01AM (#32849103)
What level of subsidy is needed for people on six-figure salaries to let their boss MITM their personal web browsing?
Re:About Lockdown Mode by yamtaddle on Thursday September 15, 2022 @12:42PM (#32854668)
Enough to pay for a dedicated work phone & plan so they aren't MITMing your personal web browsing.
Re:About Lockdown Mode by Mvandenbergh on Thursday September 15, 2022 @06:03AM (#32849537)
Strangely, not very much.