Medical exemptions are a thing. If you truly can't receive a certain vaccine, you should still be allowed to get whatever job you want. But I'm sorry, if you "don't believe in" vaccines in general, or certain specific vaccines that have - for reasons passing all comprehension - become extremely political, you should not be a healthcare provider.
If you can't staff your healthcare clinic or hospital because you fired experience doctors, nurses and staff there is a lot of politics taking place and very little practical medicine.
Removing those experienced nurses created worse working conditions for the remaining nurses who quit due to crazy schedules. The new nurses are a net negative on senior staff who have to train them. Higher wages isn't going to help attract experienced nurses who aren't allowed to work.
Do you understand how insane you sound saying things like "the covid vaccine experiment?" Like some doctors just cooked up some crazy cocktail in 45 minutes and started sticking people with it on the street? Please.
On average the people not taking the vaccine are more tuned in, have more raw facts available and have made a serious decision by weighting the facts. Thinking that this group must be getting information from Dr Oz or some other political figure you are against and blinding following is shallow reasoning. They are not the part of society who would blindly follow what they heard on the news or what a popular figure thinks or what society thinks.
Anything related to medicine or non-IP law on HN is a dumpster fire.
The number of uninformed comments on inflation/monetary policy on here is exhausting.
Nowadays, the outcomes from the several distinct vaccines have given us ten times, a hundred times more data than needed for such decisions.
On average, people like you simply can't help mistake anecdotes for data.
Someone can simultaneously (a) be trained in critical care & (b) be a vaccine skeptic.
It's analogous to meteorologists who don't believe in climate change: yes, it's kooky, but it's also not the job they're doing.
I try not to judge people completely based on a single characteristic.
How does a person's personal vaccination status, ceterus paribus, affect the care you're likely to receive?
Outside of, you know, directly asking them "Should I get vaccinated?" and being told "I wouldn't"?
Because it shows that they're not intellectually capable of making good medical decisions. The risk that the other medical decisions they will make are equally bad despite all evidence to the contrary increases.
- Those who believe that anyone who doesn't vaccinate "isn't intellectually capable of making good medical decisions"
- Those who are opposed to vaccination because they believe in conspiracy theories
- Those who are are either pro- or anti- vaccination, but realize it's a complicated issue, with evidence-supported pros and cons, that other humans of reasonable intelligence can have different opinions than themselves about
Unfortunately, the first two groups tend to be the loudest and most religious about it.
One of my best friends who lived in Seattle whose wife did have complications during pregnancy. He told his doctor that in no uncertain terms if they had to make a choice between his wife and his unborn son, to save his wife’s life. They had to perform a c section early to save his wife. His son is healthy and thriving and he had a vasectomy soon after their child was born to not risk another pregnancy and they adopted a child.
He said in today’s climate. If he had lived in a state like Texas, he would have found another job and moved.
To me the big difference is whether they're "I should not be vaccinated" or "Everyone should not be vaccinated." The former doesn't always mean belief in the latter.
So I look at someone being unvaccinated more like choosing to wear a spinning propeller hat to work every day... it's weird, and it makes me judge you, but it doesn't necessarily impact your work.
If you’re an anti vaxxer coworker, whatever. Your judgment about the vaccine doesn’t affect their ability to write good code. But if they were an Oracle fan…
I will just ignore the full three phase trials on volunteers, because I am an antivaxer.
Even worse is people who actually got covid, yet they want them to get a vaccine, which is rather pointless for them. Places with that particular policy demonstrate they don't care about science, they care about obedience to authority.
The worst part, of course, is the short time that it works. I've seen places where if you got vaccinated 2 years ago, you are golden. Had covid a month ago? A pariah. That is not based on good science, that's just obedience.
> Almost All Teens in ICU With COVID Were Unvaccinated: Study
https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/2022011...
> Third of teens hospitalized for COVID-19 need ICU care; CDC chief urges youth to get vaccinated
https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/third-of...
> Throughout the periods of Delta and Omicron predominance, hospitalization rates remained lower among fully vaccinated adolescents aged 12–17 years than among unvaccinated adolescents.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7107e4.htm
> COVID-19 vaccines for kids: What you need to know
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/i...
> Over the past month, half of the children admitted to Advocate Aurora hospitals with COVID-19 were under the age of 5 years old … 25 percent of pediatric COVID-19 patients at Advocate hospitals are requiring care in the intensive care unit … “And I would say almost 100 percent of our patients in the ICU are unvaccinated”
https://news.yahoo.com/25-pediatric-covid-patients-icu-18403...
Shame on you.
The conclusion is that the vaccine can work, and yet be unnecessary. Even with 75% unvaccinated, there were barely any deaths.
Kids simply do not need the vaccine.
Pay attention to how every one of the articles you linked simply glosses over the tiny number of patients admitted to hospital. Just because something works does not mean it's necessary.
And it's quite distressing to see how any criticism of vaccine policy is labeled as "lies and disinformation". Would you like to burn a witch next?
It's OK for someone to disagree with you, without you accusing them of lying.
And as I have found typical in these types of debates is the completely blind spot toward natural immunity. For some reason vaccine "pushers" seem to ignore that it even exists.
Tell me: Who is better protected, someone who was fully vaccinated 2 years ago, or someone who never was vaccinated, but recovered from covid 1 month ago?
Oh for fucks sake.
> Almost All Teens in ICU With COVID Were Unvaccinated: Study
> Third of teens hospitalized for COVID-19 need ICU care; CDC chief urges youth to get vaccinated
> Throughout the periods of Delta and Omicron predominance, hospitalization rates remained lower among fully vaccinated adolescents aged 12–17 years than among unvaccinated adolescents.
When you start to post bullshit online, that's when people -- very legitimately -- may choose to challenge your credentials. In fact, people should challenge your credentials in such cases. It doesn't happen anywhere near often enough, and that's a problem.
If you disagree, then you're part of the same problem. Reconsider your position.
The researchers who are qualified (and who I am getting my info from) don't have MD's, they have PhD's though. Nothing I'm saying is controversial you know.
i.e. having or not having an MD degree has little to do with vaccine knowledge.
Not saying it's acceptable or to be encouraged, but desperate times, lesser evil, etc.
Across Canada they changed the rules and now Covid positive healthcare workers can now have direct patient interactions.
https://bc.ctvnews.ca/b-c-may-allow-some-covid-positive-heal...
Apparently they can fire people who won't get vaccinated, but are willing to have Covid-positive doctors treat patients?
Something doesn't line up. Apparently being unvaccinated is higher risk than actually having Covid?
The Health Ministry confirmed in an email that it is possible for workers who test positive to be asked back to work, even if they have symptoms, but only in cases of "persistent compromise of access to services" and when all other options have been exhausted.