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Re:The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal by capableweb on Thursday September 01, 2022 @04:45PM (#32682906)
> The nice thing about indoor space is that we can make pretty much as much of it as we'd like.

What? Have you ever been in Lisbon? The city is pretty dense as it is. You could mostly just build higher, and that has its limits too, depending on the structure and foundation.

Adding more housing outside the core of the city might not be attractive enough. And increasing the density of people also means you need to increase the density of services (public and private) and utilities, which also comes with its own problem.

Re:The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal by asah on Thursday September 01, 2022 @06:28PM (#32684209)
lol Lisbon is crowded.

Lisbon: 6,452/km2

Barcelona: 16,000/km2

NYC: 25,000+/km2 (depends on the source)

Lower East Side NYC: 33,600/km2 - due to zoning regs, there are very few buildings over 9 stories... but every building is 9 stories!

Lower East Side NYC 1910: 144,000+/km2 - visit https://www.tenement.org/ to learn more.

Kowloon Walled City, 1970s: ~2M/km2 !!! - inspiring 1000s of dystopian Sci Fi stories from Akira to Blade Runner. https://www.google.com/search?q=Kowloon+Walled+City

http://demographia.com/db-nyc-sector1800.htm

Re:The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal by jahnu on Thursday September 01, 2022 @06:37PM (#32684280)
District I live in Vienna, Austria

25,000/km2

It’s pretty quiet too! :)

Re:The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal by mberger on Thursday September 01, 2022 @07:58PM (#32684965)
I live in an area with 25/km^2 and my fiance complains that there are too many
Re:The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal by FerociousTimes on Thursday September 01, 2022 @05:36PM (#32683605)
Why does everyone want to live in Lisbon?

There are other decent metropolises in Portugal and other fun spots around the country not to get crammed in the capital.

Re:The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal by hadlock on Friday September 02, 2022 @01:42AM (#32687020)
Libson is a global city, easy air access to pretty much everywhere in europe/us/asia, good international schools, low cost of living, and very importantly, very mild, california-like weather. Once you have kids, you need access to good international schools so that they can integrate back into US public schools/colleges without getting left behind academically. Also you have access to a lot more culture and night life than out in the country. For young people the dating pool in large cities is very deep. Getting out of Libson/Porto as an expat, dating can be difficult if you're not a fluent speaker of the local language, and Portuguese is wildly different from Spanish when spoken, even though they look similar on paper.
Re:The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal by the_gipsy on Thursday September 01, 2022 @06:33PM (#32684246)
That's where job opportunities are, and that's why more housing will increase the opportunities, and then the price of housing...
Re:The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal by FerociousTimes on Thursday September 01, 2022 @07:30PM (#32684730)
For a post-Covid world where remote job opportunities are on the rise, this is becoming less and less of a pressing matter.

People can work from nearby towns where housing costs are relatively moderate and just hit the head office in Lisbon one or two times a week.

Corporations and people need to adapt to the changing circumstances and to be open to make the necessary adjustments to advance in this world.

Re:The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal by Elinvynia on Friday September 02, 2022 @02:57AM (#32687484)
Not all people can work remotely!

This is the exact way that janitors and baristas and everyone servicing those 100k+ a year software engineers is priced out.

Re:The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal by the_gipsy on Friday September 02, 2022 @06:44AM (#32689092)
Remote work is certainly a way to de-focus big metropolis, a bit.
Re:The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal by jonathanstrange on Friday September 02, 2022 @04:45AM (#32688287)
Usually for work-related reasons.
Re:The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal by epolanski on Thursday September 01, 2022 @06:16PM (#32684083)
Even outside it.

Took a train to Sintra, there were endless and endless 6 story-miles long buildings forever. Portugal seems insanely dense.

Re:The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal by renewiltord on Thursday September 01, 2022 @06:45PM (#32684362)
Have you been to San Francisco?

Lisbon: 100.05 km^2 , 544k people

San Francisco: 121.48 km^2, 873k people

20% more room than Lisbon, 60% more people.

Re:The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal by aperson_hello on Thursday September 01, 2022 @07:50PM (#32684886)
And SF isn't exactly a model of good urban planning either. It could double or triple its density and be just fine!
Re:The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal by Aeolun on Thursday September 01, 2022 @08:32PM (#32685211)
40 story skyscrapers with apartments in the city center should solve the issue.
Re:The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal by Valakas_ on Tuesday September 06, 2022 @04:18AM (#32734383)
Yep. Gotta love even more cars and people / m2, as if traffic wasn't bad enough as it is. Some people really just think the solution is to cram more people into an already overflowing place. And please don't compare with SF or NY. Those are definitely not models. Everyone knows how shit the traffic is there. A good urban planning will limit population density by, among others, limiting height of buildings.
Re:The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal by midoridensha on Friday September 02, 2022 @12:11AM (#32686498)
They can build higher than that. New apartment/condo towers in Tokyo are routinely over 50 stories, and that's in a place that gets earthquakes routinely.