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Re:TSMC to begin 3nm chip production next month by arroz on Thursday August 18, 2022 @10:35AM (#32510236)
What monopoly?

Apple pays more hence they get the product

If someone else wants to pay more, they can get the product too

There are other foundries too, they could get their phone chip done with Samsung on a similar technology

What is true is that outside of TSCM and Samsung, you don’t have options for high end products

Re:TSMC to begin 3nm chip production next month by cryptonym on Thursday August 18, 2022 @10:42AM (#32510361)
Monopoly: the exclusive possession or control of the supply of or trade in a commodity or service.

The fact they got more money than competitors and leverage that to get exclusive control doesn't matter much. Textbook definition of a monopoly. On legal side, IANAL, no idea if this could be illegal somewhere.

Re:TSMC to begin 3nm chip production next month by arroz on Thursday August 18, 2022 @10:49AM (#32510457)
Apple doesn’t have exclusive control over 3nm process

They will just get the first chips — maybe for the first year of production, idk

Re:TSMC to begin 3nm chip production next month by smoldesu on Thursday August 18, 2022 @10:55AM (#32510538)
Yeah, this is what people said about 5nm too. Guess what? You can't even buy the 5nm node today because Apple still buys up the majority of it, and the few other competitors like Nvidia and AMD fight like animals for the scraps.

Whatever you want to call it, it's pretty anticompetitive. Seeing them do the same thing for 3nm doesn't inspire confidence that they're going to do the right thing this time around.

Re:TSMC to begin 3nm chip production next month by ohgodplsno on Thursday August 18, 2022 @11:03AM (#32510644)
Apple doesn't have exclusive control

Except for the first year where they take a headstart where nobody else can either have matching chips or figure out what issues come out of this process, making them get an even bigger advantage as they have stabilized their process on year 2 when everyone is barely building up.

Don't be a clown. You know fully well what Apple is doing.

Re:TSMC to begin 3nm chip production next month by eldaisfish on Thursday August 18, 2022 @11:39AM (#32511145)
if one were to make the argument of exclusivity, TSMC is the right example, not apple. As much as i dislike apple's practices, they are paying what they can afford.

If other fabs were available, apple's ability to pay up would not be leading to accusations of anti-competitive behaviour.

Re:TSMC to begin 3nm chip production next month by ohgodplsno on Thursday August 18, 2022 @12:01PM (#32511419)
>If other fabs were available, apple's ability to pay up would not be leading to accusations of anti-competitive behaviour.

If I ignore reality and make up non-existent fabs, the extremely monopolistic, anti-competitive behaviour is not a problem!

>they are paying what they can afford.

The problem is not paying what they can afford, it's paying that in addition to forbidding TSMC from increasing their capacity on that node while the contract is ongoing. It's both paying what they can afford, and paying so that others can't afford it.

Re:TSMC to begin 3nm chip production next month by hnaccount_rng on Thursday August 18, 2022 @04:57PM (#32514790)
Do they forbid adding capacity? I thought they basically finance the capacity in trade for the right to do first bid on any capacity for a certain timeframe. And they have the margins to just pay more than any competitor. AND they are also supply constraint. Ie it’s not that they buy stuff and then _not_ use it (on the contrary they are well known for carrying nearly no inventory)

If some other company is willing (or really: able) to make a competing offer, I’m not aware of TSMC not being interested in that. It just happens that the number of companies with the margins to spend what probably amounts to the GDP of a small nation is approximately zero (or one if you count Apple)

Re:TSMC to begin 3nm chip production next month by locutous on Thursday August 18, 2022 @08:40PM (#32516509)
> The problem is not paying what they can afford, it's paying that in addition to forbidding TSMC from increasing their capacity on that node while the contract is ongoing. It's both paying what they can afford, and paying so that others can't afford it.

Except they didn't have exclusive access? Huawei also bought 5nm. Intel contracted 3nm along with apple before backing out.

Re:TSMC to begin 3nm chip production next month by 988747 on Thursday August 18, 2022 @04:53PM (#32514752)
>> it's paying that in addition to forbidding TSMC from increasing their capacity on that node while the contract is ongoing

Is there any proof that this is actually true? TSMC is currently building few new factories, I suppose they will produce 3nm chip in them.

Re:TSMC to begin 3nm chip production next month by ksec on Friday August 19, 2022 @10:36AM (#32521499)
>The problem is not paying what they can afford, it's paying that in addition to forbidding TSMC from increasing their capacity on that node while the contract is ongoing.

I am sorry but that is simply not true. Sigh.

Re:TSMC to begin 3nm chip production next month by scarface74 on Thursday August 18, 2022 @12:37PM (#32511869)
Another company would be free to hand TSMC money to build capacity. The Android market for cell phones is much larger than the iPhone market.
Re:TSMC to begin 3nm chip production next month by mr_toad on Friday August 19, 2022 @03:26AM (#32518358)
> Monopoly: the exclusive possession or control of the supply of or trade in a commodity or service.

Except that Apple don’t supply or trade in chips. If they were buying up chips and hoarding them it might be considered a monopoly.

Re:TSMC to begin 3nm chip production next month by titzer on Thursday August 18, 2022 @11:03AM (#32510651)
I think you'd find it rude and, ultimately, unacceptable if a competitor with 1000x as much cash as you bought all of the raw materials that your business needs at a mark-up, leaving you completely unable to deliver any product whatsoever. That's rightly the kind of abuse of market position that is regulated by anti-trust laws.
Re:TSMC to begin 3nm chip production next month by lostmsu on Thursday August 18, 2022 @12:30PM (#32511791)
I think this is perfectly fine, and AFAIK is not regulated unless the competitor literally dumps the chips.
Re:TSMC to begin 3nm chip production next month by ksec on Friday August 19, 2022 @10:32AM (#32521444)
Except this is not what is happening. They are paying to buy all the "Top quality" A grade materials, the competitors has plenty of choice to buy B grade materials.

The seller of Top Quality Material are in no position to sell their A grade material to all buyers.

Re:TSMC to begin 3nm chip production next month by scarface74 on Thursday August 18, 2022 @12:45PM (#32511990)
Try starting any hardware company and see how far you get - even if you don’t need cutting edge hardware.