News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Milwaukee Tool Raises the Bar with New USA Factory by gurumeditations on Sunday August 14, 2022 @06:53PM (#32463864)
American manufacturing looks like low-wage workers making $12 an hour (a few years ago) making windshields. A real American manufacturing renaissance would be German, with high skilled trained professionals designing, building, and operating advanced machines to create complex products. Basically what the Chinese are continually getting better at.

There is no hope. America can’t even agree on giving community college to poor kids, let alone training a generation of toolmakers, electronic engineers, programmers, and every other profession involved in making things out of atoms more complex than a handtool or a radiator. This country is dying and wildly unstable politically.

Re:Milwaukee Tool Raises the Bar with New USA Factory by nwiswell on Sunday August 14, 2022 @07:31PM (#32464178)
> A real American manufacturing renaissance would be German, with high skilled trained professionals designing, building, and operating advanced machines to create complex products.

So like Applied Materials, Lam Research, and KLA Tencor? The global leaders in semiconductor machinery are predominantly American, with honorable mentions for the Japanese (Tokyo Electron, Dainippon Screen) and Dutch (ASML, ASMI).

Most of the equipment is made stateside, e.g. Applied Materials manufacturing is in Austin.

> America can’t even agree on giving community college to poor kids, let alone training a generation of toolmakers, electronic engineers, programmers, and every other profession involved in making things out of atoms more complex than a handtool or a radiator.

The "America is doomed!" rhetoric is older than the hills and, while we are in decline as the global hegemon, economically we are still as vibrant as ever. Last year KLA Tencor opened a second headquarters in Ann Arbor, Michigan... not in China.

Re:Milwaukee Tool Raises the Bar with New USA Factory by devin on Sunday August 14, 2022 @11:07PM (#32465429)
It may be a bit overblown but it’s not wrong. We should invest in the future of engineering. I doubt you’d say that statement is controversial.
Re:Milwaukee Tool Raises the Bar with New USA Factory by Godel_unicode on Monday August 15, 2022 @12:29AM (#32465909)
The second sentence has nothing to do with the first and is universally true. Everyone, regardless of the state they are currently in or their current trajectory, should invest in the future of engineering.

The first statement is an extraordinary claim for which extraordinary proof is required (especially as a direct response to a post explaining how the opposite is true).

Re:Milwaukee Tool Raises the Bar with New USA Factory by throwawaylinux on Sunday August 14, 2022 @07:31PM (#32464169)
> There is no hope. America can’t even agree on giving community college to poor kids,

Working on factory production lines does not require a bachelor's degree. Germany isn't assembling cheap power tools either. One reason is that labor costs are too high, and requiring low skill jobs have a college degree does the opposite of helping that.

> let alone training a generation of toolmakers, electronic engineers, programmers, and every other profession involved in making things out of atoms more complex than a handtool or a radiator.

This isn't true. USA has some of the best EEs and programmers in the world.

> This country is dying and wildly unstable politically.

Re:Milwaukee Tool Raises the Bar with New USA Factory by stacktrust on Sunday August 14, 2022 @06:57PM (#32463905)
TSMC is sending recent American college graduates to Taiwan for 12-18 months of internship/training, in preparation for work at the TSMC fab in Phoenix, AZ, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29676073
Re:Milwaukee Tool Raises the Bar with New USA Factory by Godel_unicode on Monday August 15, 2022 @12:32AM (#32465927)
That’s pretty short for actual education on those kinds of processes, sounds like they have found the raw engineering talent they need at US universities. They then send them for a short stint in Taiwan to learn “the TSMC way” and then send them back.
Re:Milwaukee Tool Raises the Bar with New USA Factory by jrockway on Sunday August 14, 2022 @08:50PM (#32464640)
I don't know if that's a fair assessment, really. While it's not economically viable to pay American wages to put drills together, we do make things like jet engines and CNC machines here. The complexity has to be high enough to justify the high cost of labor. If you can build something from raw materials in your garage over the weekend, then it's probably not worth paying someone's mortgage, health insurance, and 401(k) to get it done.
Re:Milwaukee Tool Raises the Bar with New USA Factory by catawbasam on Sunday August 14, 2022 @11:33PM (#32465566)
Health insurance. Which manufacturing companies in other countries don't have to deal with.
Re:Milwaukee Tool Raises the Bar with New USA Factory by datavirtue on Monday August 15, 2022 @10:18AM (#32469987)
Wouldn't it be cool if we could buy kits from Milwaukee and assemble them ourselves?
Re:Milwaukee Tool Raises the Bar with New USA Factory by dharmab on Sunday August 14, 2022 @10:29PM (#32465229)
> A real American manufacturing renaissance would be German, with high skilled trained professionals designing, building, and operating advanced machines to create complex products.

You mean like how Standard's US factories makes automotive parts? https://youtu.be/JhqaaYNgCO4

[dead]
Re:Milwaukee Tool Raises the Bar with New USA Factory by blt on Sunday August 14, 2022 @09:40PM (#32464961)
Please show me a single person who is both strongly anti-racist and strongly against free community college in the USA.
Re:Milwaukee Tool Raises the Bar with New USA Factory by rayiner on Monday August 15, 2022 @12:21AM (#32465864)
I didn’t say they opposed free college. I said the folks you would expect to support free college (those left of center) have been co-opted by a version of “anti-racism” that treats acknowledging civilizational competition with China as “racist.” There’s lots of people who support free college(or at least claim to)—but not as a means to rebuild the American industrial base and get jobs back from China. They support free college, but also oppose tariffs and other America first policies.
Re:Milwaukee Tool Raises the Bar with New USA Factory by swores on Monday August 15, 2022 @05:07AM (#32467417)
What's the point of this apparent straw man? The reason the US can't / doesn't / shouldn't (not sure which, but presume you're suggesting at least one of those otherwise your comment's irrelevant) provide free college is because too many people who support they policy also support continued collaboration with China?

I don't see how that's relavent even if we set aside nuances and just agree for the sake of this topic to say that whatever your view on how relations with China should or shouldn't be is the right one.

edit: oh my bad it's not a straw man, you did create a link in your first comment it was just so tenuous I'd forgotten it.

> Because the folks who would ordinarily be advocating for free community college don’t want kids to go to school to learn those things.

So it's the fault of the left wing for not being left wing enough?

Re:Milwaukee Tool Raises the Bar with New USA Factory by rayiner on Monday August 15, 2022 @09:20AM (#32469298)
> So it's the fault of the left wing for not being left wing enough?

It’s the fault of the left wing for abandoning its traditional working class base to advance the interests of its elite donor class, which increasingly benefits from globalism.

Societies have groups with conflicting interests, and political parties represent those groups. Right wing groups will exist, and should exist, to represent the interests of businesses and upper classes. That’s not a problem. It’s a problem when left wing groups are co-opted by ideologies that causes them to turn on the working class people they are supposed to represent.

Re:Milwaukee Tool Raises the Bar with New USA Factory by UberFly on Sunday August 14, 2022 @10:58PM (#32465379)
I did actually have a lady yelling at me once at a street fair because one of our products had a "Made in the USA" tag on it. Called us imperialists. Yes those people are out there. (I'm in the US btw)
Re:Milwaukee Tool Raises the Bar with New USA Factory by sgift on Monday August 15, 2022 @06:34AM (#32467985)
In a big enough society you can almost always find someone who has some fringe belief. If you had this once a week it could be relevant. But once? Doesn't reach the relevance threshold for policy discussions.
Re:Milwaukee Tool Raises the Bar with New USA Factory by tptacek on Sunday August 14, 2022 @10:59PM (#32465385)
And they’re offended at the notion that we might want to build things in the US instead of China, because that would be racist.

No, they're not.

Re:Milwaukee Tool Raises the Bar with New USA Factory by rayiner on Monday August 15, 2022 @12:34AM (#32465933)
The Nation: https://newrepublic.com/article/144390/trumps-white-supremac...

Vox: https://www.vox.com/2019/7/3/20681384/trump-trade-agenda-rac...

I didn’t say everyone who supports free community college also thinks rebuilding the industrial base and trade wars with China are white supremacy. But there are enough people who do to divide the coalition and render it ineffectual.

Re:Milwaukee Tool Raises the Bar with New USA Factory by tptacek on Monday August 15, 2022 @12:56AM (#32466045)
On your side of the argument, you've marshaled Bryce Covert, contributing writer for The New Republic (I read it twice and I still don't know what that Zeitlin article was trying to say).

On my side of the argument, I have the President of the United States of America, and one of his first executive actions:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/management/made-in-america/

This is not a good hill to die on. Everybody thinks made-in-America is a good thing. Republicans like it. Democrats like it. Liberals like it, conservatives like it.