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Re:Knowledge overconfidence is associated with anti-consensu... by rossdavidh on Sunday August 07, 2022 @01:41PM (#32378176)
It is my experience that listening to experts normally is a good idea, but the idea of a scientific journal publishing research that we should all listen to scientists and not hold anti-consensus views, has more than a little possibility for bias on the part of the researchers. Moreover, would it not be odd if those who held anti-consensus views were not overconfident? People of average or lower-than-average confidence would defer to the consensus. It's almost like saying "people who disagree with others more, are more disagreeable".
Re:Knowledge overconfidence is associated with anti-consensu... by sidlls on Sunday August 07, 2022 @01:47PM (#32378209)
It's saying that people who hold anti-(scientific)consensus views generally believe themselves to be more well-educated than they actually are. That's a far cry from merely being disagreeable. It doesn't seem to say anything about actually knowledgeable scientists holding anti-consensus views, except insofar as to reiterate the thesis.
Re:Knowledge overconfidence is associated with anti-consensu... by honkkong420 on Sunday August 07, 2022 @02:22PM (#32378484)
Idk, anecdotally I don’t think I’m right about my heterodox nutrition views because I’m more educated, I just observe the consensus view of eating 12 servings of grain per day is wrong because I feel worse listening to their advice than eating what I naturally prefer.

I don’t think education comes into play at all?

Re:Knowledge overconfidence is associated with anti-consensu... by ryanklee on Sunday August 07, 2022 @02:32PM (#32378568)
Education must come into play. Your own case illustrates this, as there is no such consensus view.

And even granting the possibility that you are exaggerating for effect, it's hard to find a field of knowledge with more contention than dietary nutrition, so one has to be even more diligent about acquiring expertise and not fooling oneself.

Re:Knowledge overconfidence is associated with anti-consensu... by honkkong420 on Sunday August 07, 2022 @02:55PM (#32378779)
Education matters for the consensus (for arbitrary reasons) but in my own life, my prior experiences with food inform my next meal. Education doesn’t come into play at all.

Let me pose this another way, why would you expect me to change the amount of bread i eat because of another year education? I already had 13 years of teachers telling me it should be the foundation of my diet and it didn’t stick. Why would the next year of education be any different?

Re:Knowledge overconfidence is associated with anti-consensu... by danaris on Sunday August 07, 2022 @03:47PM (#32379256)
You seem to be conflating "education", in the general sense, with education in a specific subfield.

I wouldn't expect another year of English literature, calculus, and nuclear physics courses to teach me anything about biology, civics, or textile manufacturing that I could apply to my day-to-day life, either—but a year of education in nutrition science, the practical workings of government, and traditional spinning and weaving techniques? That makes a huge difference.

Re:Knowledge overconfidence is associated with anti-consensu... by joshuamorton on Sunday August 07, 2022 @03:08PM (#32378917)
The modern consensus (or perhaps official, since consensus may be different) is that you should be eating more vegetables than grains.

So you appear to agree with the consensus of experts that grains should not be the basis of your diet. This has been the us governments recommendation for over a decade (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MyPlate)

Re:Knowledge overconfidence is associated with anti-consensu... by xboxnolifes on Sunday August 07, 2022 @03:24PM (#32379044)
They probably weren't in primary schooling in the last 11 years. They were probably taught the food pyramid over my plate, and disagreed with it.
Re:Knowledge overconfidence is associated with anti-consensu... by joshuamorton on Sunday August 07, 2022 @05:02PM (#32379856)
Sure but "my personal experiences match up with the expert consensus from the past decade" (and really longer, the 2005 food pyramid was for slightly more grains than veggies, not double) isn't a particularly strong argument for disagreeing with the expert consensus.

If what you're saying is "I disagree with expert consensus from the 80s", well then sure, but so does the expert consensus! That's how the scientific process works (slowly).

Re:Knowledge overconfidence is associated with anti-consensu... by honkkong420 on Monday August 08, 2022 @12:33AM (#32382408)
My argument is that my prior experiences seem to work better for guiding my meal choice than all the formal knowledge presented to me.
Re:Knowledge overconfidence is associated with anti-consensu... by pbak on Monday August 08, 2022 @03:07AM (#32383041)
Which is ironic considering what the discussion is about: you conducted your own scientific experiment on yourself, disproved the consensus-accepted rule, and came to new conclusions.

To achieve that, you needed to have enough confidence in yourself and your ability to measure and feel stuff (which some people think is bad, apparently) versus some consensus which purports to know better.

Courageous new science regularly blasts old knowledge and education to bits, and that's a good things.

Re:Knowledge overconfidence is associated with anti-consensu... by joshuamorton on Monday August 08, 2022 @12:13PM (#32387399)
And my point is that your failed to do even a trivial amount of research into what consensus is.

If "knowledge" was only what you were presented in primary school, the world would be a very different place.

Re:Knowledge overconfidence is associated with anti-consensu... by oceanplexian on Sunday August 07, 2022 @04:22PM (#32379532)
Maybe I’m one of the disagreeable people this article is referring to, but what is a scientific “consensus” exactly? A consensus in your country? A consensus in your region of the world?

Fact is we live in a post modernist society. There is no such thing as consensus, only what particular bubble and social framework your frame of reference is operating from.

Re:Knowledge overconfidence is associated with anti-consensu... by aunty_helen on Sunday August 07, 2022 @02:27PM (#32378531)
Another part to this, listening to the experts in a particular field tends to disregard competing priorities from other fields.

We saw this all through the pandemic, but it's common in everyday life too.

Re:Knowledge overconfidence is associated with anti-consensu... by Julesman on Sunday August 07, 2022 @03:21PM (#32379026)
This was more or less my response as well. The 'academy as monolith of truth' is so 20th century. And, of course, disagreeing with Newton is very different that disagreeing with Freud. And we certainly aren't surprised that dupes got the Dunning Kruger.

But I worry about the impact of this line of thinking as we see it repeated in mainstream contexts. "Consensus as measure of truthiness" is incredibly problematic.

Re:Knowledge overconfidence is associated with anti-consensu... by ogurechny on Sunday August 07, 2022 @10:32PM (#32381920)
Newton wrote enough esoteric works to match Freud. However, it is either skipped entirely or discussed as some kind of hobby because he was promoted into superstar of science long time ago, and anything that stuck out from that public image was cut without any regard to what Newton thought. So there's quite a lot to disagree with for a regular person, but the regular person simply have no idea it exists.
Re:Knowledge overconfidence is associated with anti-consensu... by simonh on Sunday August 07, 2022 @02:20PM (#32378465)
So you think it’s obviously true, but also obviously the result of biased research?
Re:Knowledge overconfidence is associated with anti-consensu... by joe-collins on Sunday August 07, 2022 @02:33PM (#32378578)
It seems true in a trivial sense, so remarking upon it seems less revelatory, and possibly backed by some ulterior motive.