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Re:Amazon to acquire maker of Roomba vacuum for roughly $1.7B by pull_my_finger on Friday August 05, 2022 @08:35AM (#32355190)
I wonder if Amazon actually cares about cleaning robots, or if they're after the data roomba collects? https://www.theverge.com/2017/7/28/16055590/roomba-wont-sell...
Re:Amazon to acquire maker of Roomba vacuum for roughly $1.7B by ChrisLomont on Friday August 05, 2022 @09:33AM (#32355894)
Amazon probably cares most about getting all the robot making talent and capability they can for a wide range of robotic needs they have/will have.
Re:Amazon to acquire maker of Roomba vacuum for roughly $1.7B by bmitc on Friday August 05, 2022 @09:45AM (#32356045)
Amazon Robotics has been actively poaching talent from iRobot already, but I think it's probably a little of everything: talent, data, and the bump they can give to iRobot sales.
Re:Amazon to acquire maker of Roomba vacuum for roughly $1.7B by muttled on Friday August 05, 2022 @11:31AM (#32357601)
Roomba already makes bots that carry around pallets in a warehouse so your point makes sense.
Re:Amazon to acquire maker of Roomba vacuum for roughly $1.7B by agilob on Friday August 05, 2022 @08:39AM (#32355233)
Schema of your property, number of people living there and times where no one is at home is definitely useful for amazon.
Re:Amazon to acquire maker of Roomba vacuum for roughly $1.7B by KoftaBob on Friday August 05, 2022 @09:21AM (#32355732)
The schema of your property is already publicly available in home schematics records, and they already have your address to look up.

I think Occam's Razor applies here. iRobot is a profitable smart home product maker, their revenue/profit has continuously grown, and their IP + talent will allow Amazon to expand into other smart home verticals.

Re:Amazon to acquire maker of Roomba vacuum for roughly $1.7B by dogleash on Friday August 05, 2022 @09:53AM (#32356125)
I think experience has shown us time and time again that the following forms are misapplications of Occam's Razor:

- business decision X isn't (in part) motivated by the intention to exploit the incidental access to data a product class brings

- data class Y seems worthless/redundant, they wouldn't make a business out of it

Re:Amazon to acquire maker of Roomba vacuum for roughly $1.7B by KoftaBob on Friday August 05, 2022 @10:09AM (#32356320)
Scans of people's home layout definitely wouldn't be worthless, I just don't think that's the main motivator of the acquisition.
Re:Amazon to acquire maker of Roomba vacuum for roughly $1.7B by soultrees on Saturday August 06, 2022 @05:26AM (#32366456)
It’s not the home layout so much as the habits that data uncovers. Access to peoples homes is the holy grail and especially so in amazons case. Whereas the Alexa gives Amazon audio from inside, and ring gives them video and audio from outside, this would take things a step further. You have the obvious data like in and outs, bedtimes, house schedules (kitchen to living room, living room to bedroom, bedroom to bathroom trips) but it can also get more granular and even more so with LiDAR and image recognition. Imagine a vacuum that knows which brand of shoe you wear and size of feet you are, which can then identify if a new pair shoes up on its next scan (same size? Oh this person bought a new pair of shoes. Different size? Oh this person is potentially in a relationship now.)

These are all key data points which Amazon drools over.

Re:Amazon to acquire maker of Roomba vacuum for roughly $1.7B by jjk166 on Friday August 05, 2022 @11:13AM (#32357309)
The locations of walls and doors, yes. Your furniture and other stuff, no. Having a "man on the inside" able to tell whether that third bedroom is being used as an office or a nursery could be of value to a company deciding whether to advertise child care products or office supplies. Hell just giving a heads up that a household is in the market for a big ticket item like a couch could be quite valuable.
Re:Amazon to acquire maker of Roomba vacuum for roughly $1.7B by Invictus0 on Friday August 05, 2022 @09:48AM (#32356079)
Yes it's possible to lookup the schematics but completely impractical at Amazon's scale.
Re:Amazon to acquire maker of Roomba vacuum for roughly $1.7B by delecti on Friday August 05, 2022 @10:18AM (#32356434)
If home schematics were actually a thing they cared about (and I'm skeptical of even that premise), then at Amazon's scale, they could make it easy to achieve at their scale.
Re:Amazon to acquire maker of Roomba vacuum for roughly $1.7B by toss1 on Friday August 05, 2022 @01:21PM (#32359106)
It is a totally different proposition to go and often manually lookup and harvest building floorplan data from town/city archives than to passively collect the same data floorplan data generated by devices in their ordinary operation.

The former is not scaleable in any reasonable way and every operation is an ADDITIONAL cost, whereas the latter is generated for the products' main purpose and you merely add some storage for the harvested data. Moreover, the generated data will be much more up-to-date (plenty of renovations or updates happen without building permits, legally or not).

Re:Amazon to acquire maker of Roomba vacuum for roughly $1.7B by rasz on Friday August 05, 2022 @11:02AM (#32357131)
And now realize Chinese brands of cleaning robots have build in full detailed mapping (lidar/camera/ai), and do call home.
Re:Amazon to acquire maker of Roomba vacuum for roughly $1.7B by bthrn on Friday August 05, 2022 @10:12AM (#32356354)
My robot vacuum sits docked away from me, on a separate floor, during the day. It runs at night time and I never see it. It's connected to its own IOT network. How would it know how many people live in my home and when I'm not there?
Re:Amazon to acquire maker of Roomba vacuum for roughly $1.7B by rasz on Friday August 05, 2022 @11:14AM (#32357321)
Shoes/slippers, number of toothbrushes, coats/jackets, beds. Yes, they do have cameras and call home. Opsec is hard.
Re:Amazon to acquire maker of Roomba vacuum for roughly $1.7B by tinus_hn on Friday August 05, 2022 @10:28AM (#32356560)
Roomba uses cameras which don’t work at night. If you run it in the dark it gets stuck. At least the 960.
Re:Amazon to acquire maker of Roomba vacuum for roughly $1.7B by jacquesm on Friday August 05, 2022 @08:51AM (#32355354)
And for burglars.
Re:Amazon to acquire maker of Roomba vacuum for roughly $1.7B by throwaway0a5e on Friday August 05, 2022 @08:56AM (#32355409)
I assume you're talking about the kind with a badge. Normal criminals don't get access to Amazon's info before entering a house.
Re:Amazon to acquire maker of Roomba vacuum for roughly $1.7B by alistairSH on Friday August 05, 2022 @09:13AM (#32355617)
Maybe I'm just paranoid, but it's only a matter of time until Amazon's data is leaked and sold on the black market. Correlate house layout, number of residents and their schedules, plus income bracket (from another source, possibly also from Amazon), and it's a blueprint for burglars looking for an easy score in an upper-middle class neighborhood.
Re:Amazon to acquire maker of Roomba vacuum for roughly $1.7B by bthrn on Friday August 05, 2022 @10:10AM (#32356330)
People who rob upper-middle class homes are not going to do so because they have a house layout in advance. They're just going to rob the house. And anybody who goes to the lengths of buying Amazon data on the black market is not going to be interested in stealing people's laptops and jewelry.
Re:Amazon to acquire maker of Roomba vacuum for roughly $1.7B by swores on Friday August 05, 2022 @02:23PM (#32359906)
I think that's a bit naïve, considering how common it is to see modern tech and basic/traditional crimes intersect - from ATM card cloning, to using Tor+cryptocurrencies for buying drugs, car key fob hacking, etc.

Sure the people who currently buy data on the black market won't all start robbing houses, and the people currently robbing houses won't all start buying illegal data to help their burgling.

But as long as the economics make sense (and it likely would - once someone has a bunch of useful data that they want to sell illegally, they'll lower the price until it is worth being bought by people), some burglars definitely will start adding more intelligence to their planning including using black market data leaks for picking houses to target and for how/when to rob them, what items to look for, etc.

And potentially you also get other people for whom burglary wasn't a feasible option before, but combined with this new tool might be. Personally I'm not going to become a burglar for ethical reasons, but for the sake of a hypothetical let's pretend that I have no ethics whatsoever and think that stealing is a fantastic idea as long as I can avoid getting caught. I still wouldn't rob houses, because it would seem like quite a risky way of making money, and with each big risk taken there's a fair chance of not even finding anything particularly valuable once you've broken into a house.

But if I could buy data leaks that I trusted which told me which houses to rob to find the best ROI items (high value, easy to carry, and maybe even located thanks to the camera of a robot vacuum), and also told me when people would be home and would be asleep.... well maybe my hypothetical no-ethics self would still find a better crime to commit, but it'd be a hell of a lot more tempting to become a burglar than without all that data!

Do you really think there haven't already been crimes committed that involves basic dumb theft but where the targets were chosen based off a leaked list of car purchases, or jewellery shop customers, or...? And not just in the era of digital data theft, go back a thousand years and I'd assume there were some "crimes of opportunity" committed not on a whim but thanks to planning enabled only by the studying of information they shouldn't have been in possession of.

Re:Amazon to acquire maker of Roomba vacuum for roughly $1.7B by ghaff on Friday August 05, 2022 @09:42AM (#32356004)
You don't need to go to the black market. You can look up the property at the county (or whatever) clerk's office or look at satellite imagery and get a pretty good approximation.

A ton of things are public information to a greater or lesser degree whether you like it or not.

Re:Amazon to acquire maker of Roomba vacuum for roughly $1.7B by julianlam on Friday August 05, 2022 @09:26AM (#32355805)
Don't forget to filter out homes that didn't buy an alarm system off Amazon
Re:Amazon to acquire maker of Roomba vacuum for roughly $1.7B by darkwater on Friday August 05, 2022 @09:25AM (#32355775)
Your take reminds me of https://xkcd.com/538/
Re:Amazon to acquire maker of Roomba vacuum for roughly $1.7B by phendrenad2 on Friday August 05, 2022 @12:20PM (#32358283)
Not to mention the location of valuables, security cameras (other than Ring, as they can just turn those off), any security dogs or cats. How do you think Jeffrey Beesoz got so rich?
Re:Amazon to acquire maker of Roomba vacuum for roughly $1.7B by isodev on Friday August 05, 2022 @09:40AM (#32355978)
It's also possible that iRobot owns patents related to technology Amazon is planning to use. Besides brush/cleaning-related patents, iRobot owns the rights to several techniques used to map and zone a space.
Re:Amazon to acquire maker of Roomba vacuum for roughly $1.7B by joshl32532 on Friday August 05, 2022 @03:14PM (#32360629)
I would imagine they'd want to combine Amazon Astro (the home robot) and Roomba's cleaning tech.

Create an all-in-one Alexa robot.

Re:Amazon to acquire maker of Roomba vacuum for roughly $1.7B by InCityDreams on Friday August 05, 2022 @11:17AM (#32357363)
Looking at the reviews for spare parts for my model i7, i hope amazon gets rid of the crap replacements, but equally lowers the extortionate prices on the official, various, eu website(s).
Re:Amazon to acquire maker of Roomba vacuum for roughly $1.7B by dr_spicy on Friday August 05, 2022 @01:36PM (#32359286)
Apparently iRobot is going to Amazon Devices and not Amazon Robotics, but who knows if they'll silently transfer a lot of that knowledge/talent after the acquisition
Re:Amazon to acquire maker of Roomba vacuum for roughly $1.7B by kumarvvr on Friday August 05, 2022 @10:07AM (#32356290)
I guess data is one part, but I see this as a smart home eco-system play, that integrates well into their Alexa thing.
Re:Amazon to acquire maker of Roomba vacuum for roughly $1.7B by raverbashing on Friday August 05, 2022 @08:45AM (#32355283)
Amazon definitely cares about automated appliances (as demonstrated by their warehouse automation)
Re:Amazon to acquire maker of Roomba vacuum for roughly $1.7B by michaelt on Friday August 05, 2022 @09:11AM (#32355597)
Warehouse automation is a completely different ballgame to consumer, though.

If an Amazon warehouse can replace a $20,000/year human with a Kiva robot, they're happy to pay $10,000 for it. Consumers, on the other hand, would find $500 on the steep side for a robot vacuum, considering they'll also need a regular vacuum to cover the stairs and so on.

Consumers' price sensitivity is why Roomba spent years with a plastic product navigating at random by bumping into things and relying more on a brush than a vacuum.

Re:Amazon to acquire maker of Roomba vacuum for roughly $1.7B by brianwawok on Friday August 05, 2022 @09:16AM (#32355655)
I think your numbers are a bit off. The base Amazon warehouse worker is closer to 35-40k all in cost. And the $700-$900 roombas sell very well.
Re:Amazon to acquire maker of Roomba vacuum for roughly $1.7B by elcritch on Saturday August 06, 2022 @01:03AM (#32364974)
I'd expect they'd pay even 2-3x that easily since a robot can work 24/7. The squishy humans need to pee, or worse go home.
Re:Amazon to acquire maker of Roomba vacuum for roughly $1.7B by dannyphantom on Friday August 05, 2022 @11:07AM (#32357207)
I once attended a Foxconn seminar presented by Jay Lee where the topic was "dark warehouses"; certainly wouldn't be surprised if Amazon has a strong desire to reach that level of machine autonomy in their own warehouses.
Re:Amazon to acquire maker of Roomba vacuum for roughly $1.7B by SnaggyJoker on Friday August 05, 2022 @08:51AM (#32355347)
At this point a company is going to need to produce a "deceased cubicle human detection" robot for the few holdouts 40 years from now.
Re:Amazon to acquire maker of Roomba vacuum for roughly $1.7B by andrew_ on Friday August 05, 2022 @09:15AM (#32355638)
there's a loose correlation of concerns there, but "definitely"? More like "likely."
Re:Amazon to acquire maker of Roomba vacuum for roughly $1.7B by ekianjo on Friday August 05, 2022 @09:33AM (#32355899)
> Amazon definitely cares about automated appliances (as demonstrated by their warehouse automation)

This is almost equivalent to saying that Boeing cares about paper planes because they make airliners.