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Re:Don’t Blame Dostoyevsky by lbrito on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @11:47AM (#32239893)
I'm baffled how this seems only to apply to the Ukraine this one time. Any meaningful discussion is labeled "whataboutism" and dismissed.

You will surely agree with me that Russia is not the world's pioneer in wars of aggression. What about (oh no, whataboutism! We can safely dismiss the argument without thinking now) all the other countries that did, and do the same? Should we also dismiss their cultural output?

I'm not trying to diminish the seriousness of Russia's aggression, or how much Ukrainians are suffering. That is not the point. I want to know why you think we should dismiss Dostoevsky but not Shakespeare (to be clear, Shakespeare is just an example. I am not talking specifically about the UK). Basically every great artist and intellectual was part of a war-waging genocidal empire, and many of them pro-regime in varying degrees (Dostoevsky being a good example of the "varying"). Appreciating these people doesn't mean supporting the empires.

Re:Don’t Blame Dostoyevsky by cudgy on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @12:00PM (#32240057)
Well said. The blinders that ignore the equally abhorrent wars and policy of NATO and the US placed upon much of the discourse regarding the Ukraine situation are glaringly obvious yet somehow ignored.
Re:Don’t Blame Dostoyevsky by jevgeni on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @07:00PM (#32245154)
NATO and US don’t invade because your schools don’t teach Ezra Pound.
Re:Don’t Blame Dostoyevsky by cpursley on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @02:05PM (#32241658)
It really comes down to race, but most will never openly admit it. Let's face it, the Russian invasion of Ukraine is a white people war.

The 11 million muslims killed (and many more displaced) by the collective west (NATO) since 1990 don't count, because they're brown.

But when a non-western majority white country wages war, as George Carlin famously said "That's Our F*ck!ng Job":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qyG6cmTHco

Re:Don’t Blame Dostoyevsky by ROTMetro on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @02:56PM (#32242396)
No, it's about culture and proximity. There is a huge hunger problem in America. I give to my local food bank. It's not because I'm pro my state and anti all the others.

We are talking about Russian literature because it is part of our culture, unlike Afghani literature.

Attempts at weaponizing compassion are disgusting.

Re:Don’t Blame Dostoyevsky by lbrito on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @02:15PM (#32241795)
Exactly. This is the absolute core of the issue.

"On France’s BFM TV, journalist Phillipe Corbé stated this about Ukraine: “We’re not talking here about Syrians fleeing the bombing of the Syrian regime backed by Putin. We’re talking about Europeans leaving in cars that look like ours to save their lives."

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/02/civili...

Re:Don’t Blame Dostoyevsky by ROTMetro on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @03:06PM (#32242517)
So proximity and culture. I instantly place myself and my family in those cars fleeing Ukraine, I relate easier because it's familiar. My human empathy and compassion is not evil, and your attempts to weaponize it are gross and deny human nature and realities of the human experience.

I also watch more movies in English in settings I am familiar with or better know the context of (Western history versus eastern).

I also wear clothes I am culturally comfortable with. Am I racist for not giving all clothes equal wearing?

Because I had a diversity of ethnic foods around, I am comfortable and enjoy eating them. My family from the midwest who had no exposure mostly don't relate to them. I am not less racist, nor are they more, it's just a proximity and culture thing.

I am very fond of Greek and Roman history, yet have no Greek or Roman ancestry, because I am much more familiar with greek and roman history and culture than say Persian. It's not race, it's proximity and culture. Not that I wouldn't love more Parthian Empire stories.

Re:Don’t Blame Dostoyevsky by lbrito on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @03:41PM (#32242950)
This is wrong in so many levels.

What does eating Thai food have to do with anything? I sense you tried to make an analogy, but it's so obtuse I honestly can't imagine what you were thinking.

Are you honestly saying that empathy is dependent on culture or nationality? That is some pre-enlightenment thinking right there. I thought we civilized westerners had evolved towards universal empathy, all humankind is equal and all that.

You conspicuously left out one thing. It's a biggie. Proximity and culture and RACE.

I recommend you read the article I linked. If you're okay with the statements such as "they are not like the [savage middle easterners], they are blue-eyed like us", then it is an honor to be antagonized by you. I would be disgusted to have someone who thinks that agree with me.

Re:Don’t Blame Dostoyevsky by ROTMetro on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @04:14PM (#32243373)
I notice you don't mention conflicts in Ethiopia, Eritrea, or Sudan that have accumulated 300,000–500,000 fatalities. I notice you don't mention the ongoing conflict in Myanmar. I can only assume it's because of racism against black Africans and Asians.
Re:Don’t Blame Dostoyevsky by the_af on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @06:47PM (#32245054)
It's clear to me lbrito is mentioning them tacitly, as part of those horrifying conflicts that don't cause outrage in the West because "they are not like us". You are making lbrito's point, really.
Re:Don’t Blame Dostoyevsky by NoboruWataya on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @01:29PM (#32241205)
FYI, it's not "the Ukraine", it's "Ukraine".
Re:Don’t Blame Dostoyevsky by mola on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @01:25PM (#32241157)
This is not a meaningful discussion. There's an agression going on right now perpetrated by Russia. Talking about UK agression is just not relevant. It's an odd distraction.
Re:Don’t Blame Dostoyevsky by the_af on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @06:50PM (#32245071)
There are other conflicts going on in the world besides the Russian-Ukrainian war. We do not usually avoid/cancel authors from any of the nations or cultures involved. Well, I suppose writings by ISIS authors are not in any bestsellers list...
Re:Don’t Blame Dostoyevsky by lbrito on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @01:40PM (#32241320)
Don't be disingenuous. I'm not talking specifically about the UK. I made that clear in the original post, but just to avoid further tangentials like this I made an edit so it is triple clear now.

It is so tiring when people nitpick one specific word to "refute" you so that the rest of what you said is automatically invalidated.

Re:Don’t Blame Dostoyevsky by bitcurious on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @12:25PM (#32240385)
> That is not the point. I want to know why you think we should dismiss Dostoevsky but not Shakespeare. Basically every great artist and intellectual was part of a war-waging genocidal empire, and many of them pro-regime in varying degrees (Dostoevsky being a good example of the "varying").

I’m not on the “boycott dead Russians” train but the difference is timeliness. Russia is today engaged in a colonial war of aggression. England was last involved in such a thing in the last century.

Re:Don’t Blame Dostoyevsky by cpursley on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @02:08PM (#32241704)
Re:Don’t Blame Dostoyevsky by bitcurious on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @02:54PM (#32242366)
>The conflict began on 2 April, when Argentina invaded and occupied the Falkland Islands, followed by the invasion of South Georgia the next day.

I stand...correct?

Re:Don’t Blame Dostoyevsky by cpursley on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @06:08PM (#32244722)
fwiw - I counted the last century starting from today and backwards
Re:Don’t Blame Dostoyevsky by the_af on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @06:51PM (#32245081)
Is Russia-Ukraine the only military conflict going on in the world?