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Re:Shopify to lay off 10% of workers in broad shake-up by pc86 on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @09:57AM (#32238333)
AAA gaming is probably the worst possible example you can look at for what a well-run, sane team would look like. So let's say if you only want your people working 40ish hours a week and not 70-90, you'll 2x or 2.5x that count. Shopify also has a lot of dev rel folks even if they don't call them that - people writing engineering blog posts, working on tutorials, documentation, etc. They're typically not the same people actually working on core code day to day. My guess is all the infrastructure and security people at Shopify are non-devs. You'll also have all the devops people who are managing all the pipelines and everything. My understanding is Shopify deploys to prod many many times a day (hundreds?). The pipelines to automate that, and automate or at least manage the rollbacks, would be at least as complicated as the code itself. And across all these different areas you have that amorphous "Staff/Principal Engineer" level where you're doing a lot of reviewing, pseudo-management, that sort of thing. Not to mention managers, directors, VPs, SVPs, etc.

But you ask how they can productively use the time of 10k people and I think this post is sort of evidence that they couldn't.

Re:Shopify to lay off 10% of workers in broad shake-up by stephc_int13 on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @10:07AM (#32238458)
I understand the need for support around a complex and constantly evolving codebase, but this is the scale of it that I can't grasp.

Software is supposed to scale almost for free, they don't need people to actually make the transactions and push the bits by hand, this is all automated.

My guess is they have a lot of sales and an enormous amount of overhead.

According to Price's Law about 100 people are doing half of the work, but of course it is difficult to guess which ones and they still need the other half to be there.

Re:Shopify to lay off 10% of workers in broad shake-up by neon_electro on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @01:36PM (#32241278)
>Software is supposed to scale almost for free,

Sure, that may be true, but startups don't suffer for lacking of scaling ability.

Software does not scale with changing requirements for free. Full stop.

Re:Shopify to lay off 10% of workers in broad shake-up by golergka on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @01:04PM (#32240923)
The more your software touches real money and merchandise, the more time you have to spend to make sure you're not breaking the law in any country you're operating in. It's not fun, it's very error-prone and it's very important to get right.
Re:Shopify to lay off 10% of workers in broad shake-up by wollsmoth on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @10:32AM (#32238808)
Hard to say without knowing what they're working on. Maybe there's a lot to do with integrating other software/services. Maybe they've got a good devops org to help smooth the process for everyone. Sometimes having a few more people than you need on many levels makes the org a lot more resilient to individuals leaving so the org can keep on rolling without a hitch.
Re:Shopify to lay off 10% of workers in broad shake-up by kill_nate_kill on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @10:43AM (#32238976)
If your system doesn't have any slack in it, how can it respond to change? Having a slightly underloaded system is definitely the way to go, it leaves you with some gas to change direction if you see that you're barreling towards a cliff.
Re:Shopify to lay off 10% of workers in broad shake-up by marcosdumay on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @12:31PM (#32240457)
Well, the transition from 2k to 10k people isn't something done to add slack to create a flexible system. For that you at most double the number of people, you don't multiply it by 5.

They must have changed something either on their product or on their procedures on those 5 years.

Re:Shopify to lay off 10% of workers in broad shake-up by wollsmoth on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @01:23PM (#32241136)
My guess is they decided to start writing more tools internally instead of relying on external vendors to respond to their needs. Again, hard to say. How much did eng grow vs sales/support.
Re:Shopify to lay off 10% of workers in broad shake-up by oblio on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @04:50AM (#32248240)
> My guess is they have a lot of sales and an enormous amount of overhead.

That's not overhead, it's business.

Software people think that they're crucial. They are in the sense that the thing has to be built.

But if nothing is bought, the business goes under and the software is scrapped.

"The overhead" makes the business work, makes people buy it and continue using it, helps them when they don't know which buttons to push, which integrations to use, etc.

Re:Shopify to lay off 10% of workers in broad shake-up by conorcleary on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @10:25AM (#32238696)
Customer support and new-build implementation tied to marketing is a large chunk of the people hours.