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Re:We're going to need a lot of solar panels by midasuni on Saturday July 23, 2022 @04:40AM (#32201522)
In the U.K. the people who want renewables tend to be under 40s that can’t afford to buy a house. Those that actively don’t want renewables tend to own their own home and may have a couple the let out.
Re:We're going to need a lot of solar panels by robertlagrant on Saturday July 23, 2022 @06:26AM (#32202036)
Pretty much no-one actively doesn't want renewables. They might not want them built very near them, but that's different.
Re:We're going to need a lot of solar panels by ZeroGravitas on Saturday July 23, 2022 @06:47AM (#32202139)
There's a very obvious paper trail of people not wanting renewables.

As the article notes this price decline was predictable decades ago, but you can't really blame people for being dubious about predictions. Maybe the people who got it right were just lucky.

But since real actual installed wind and solar became cheaper a while ago, the people still openly arguing against renewables slide ever close to cartoon supervillain status.

Re:We're going to need a lot of solar panels by robertlagrant on Saturday July 23, 2022 @02:16PM (#32205967)
People thinking renewables wouldn't be cheaper aren't people who don't want renewables. Why would they even get a mention?.

I'm not convinced enough people know that renewables are cheaper to make the latter claim you're making. For example, in some places as soon as renewables come online they get priority access to demand, and other fuel sources get the leftovers. That's still a subsidy, just by another name. So I don't know if they are cheaper.

Finally, the point about renewables isn't only cost, it's also reliability. The subsidy I just mentioned falsely obviates the need for renewables to be reliable from a cost perspective, but that doesn't mean that needing a high base load (and higher the more we move to electric vehicles) isn't the most important thing to supply.

And none of that is about people "not wanting renewables".

Re:We're going to need a lot of solar panels by ClumsyPilot on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @09:21AM (#32237898)
'That's still a subsidy, just by another name. So I don't know if they are cheaper.'

yeah, but fossil fuels get subsidies of all sorts, not just polluting for free, but even things like leaving the british taxpayer to pickup the bill for cleaning up old infrastructure they no longer need

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jan/25/british-tax...

Re:We're going to need a lot of solar panels by pfdietz on Saturday July 23, 2022 @08:02AM (#32202544)
"Nuclear would have won if it weren't for you meddling kids!"
Re:We're going to need a lot of solar panels by formerkrogemp on Saturday July 23, 2022 @11:50AM (#32204422)
Let's not forget the close ties between German politicians and Gazprom executives, among other issues..
Re:We're going to need a lot of solar panels by pfdietz on Saturday July 23, 2022 @12:35PM (#32204886)
Yes, I'm sure the near universal failure of nuclear to compete around the world is due to a conspiracy in Germany.
Re:We're going to need a lot of solar panels by Ekaros on Saturday July 23, 2022 @02:18PM (#32205985)
I blame the Green movement. Those people really just wanted to destroy the planet. Not limit global change...
Re:We're going to need a lot of solar panels by pfdietz on Saturday July 23, 2022 @04:11PM (#32207151)
I see. The Green movement is globally all powerful, and you explain away the fact that the world is still not a Green utopia by saying the Green movement isn't actually Green. This is awesome mental gymnastics!

The alternate explanation is that nuclear is a sick technology, and the Green movement is not responsible for its failure. Nuclear was so weak even a group as feckless as the Greens could have success against it.

Re:We're going to need a lot of solar panels by robertlagrant on Monday July 25, 2022 @02:36PM (#32228921)
Greenpeace etc have long protested against nuclear, and have boogeymanned their way into the public consciousness on this topic. It's conceivably set us back decades and released millions of extra tons of CO2 in the process.
Re:We're going to need a lot of solar panels by pfdietz on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @09:34AM (#32238063)
A classic correlation/causation confusion. Yes, Greenpeace complained about fission. No, that doesn't mean they caused fission's failure.

If there's many billions of dollars in value to be created, that will trump anything a NGO can whine about. That's why we're still burning so much fossil fuel. Nuclear was vulnerable because it wasn't creating value.

Re:We're going to need a lot of solar panels by ClumsyPilot on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @09:23AM (#32237923)
They have done sone damage, but you cannot lay the entire problem at their feet.

Do you think lobby from fossil fuel companies just sat on their hands all this time?

Re:We're going to need a lot of solar panels by Ekaros on Saturday July 23, 2022 @07:32AM (#32202365)
I'm not against them, but I think they should not be specially subsidised. Just pay what ever the market rate at the moment is. If it is not enough to cover investment too bad.
Re:We're going to need a lot of solar panels by smallerfish on Saturday July 23, 2022 @08:07AM (#32202570)
Surely they should be at least as equally subsidized as other energy sources, with the cost of external cleanup perhaps also factored in?
Re:We're going to need a lot of solar panels by LadyCailin on Saturday July 23, 2022 @08:45AM (#32202783)
That would be fine with me, if every energy source had to pay its own negative externalities.
Re:We're going to need a lot of solar panels by Ekaros on Saturday July 23, 2022 @09:12AM (#32203011)
Will absolutely all of the externalities of mining, manufacturing and transport then be also applied to renewables?

Also, maybe if there is any risk of damage to surroundings like with hydro batteries there would be need to deposit amount of money that covers them fully.

Re:We're going to need a lot of solar panels by oblio on Saturday July 23, 2022 @09:25AM (#32203125)
Yes, they should. Otherwise we'll just drown in a hot sea of shit, only 50 years down the line. Everything needs to be sustainable, kind of by definition.

But as with any problem, let's first start with the stuff causing the damage.

Let's get oil and gas and coal to pay for EVERY negative externality.

Re:We're going to need a lot of solar panels by throwaway2037 on Saturday July 23, 2022 @11:27AM (#32204186)
You wrote: <<Just pay what ever the market rate at the moment is.>>

This is positive ridiculous. Are you serious in 2022? Your electricity is surely mostly sourced from hydrocarbons. Are you paying "true cost"? Surely not. If electricity was suddenly twice the cost due to carbon costs (which is probably the true environmental cost), you would be shouting from your windows to build more solar panels and wind turbines.