Re:The first ever Red Extreme heat warning issued in UK
by qubex on Friday July 15, 2022 @02:56PM
(#32111592)
I don’t want to diminish this in the slightest, but the current system was only introduced in 2021 so it’s not like it’s a “first time in centuries” kind of thing (though it’s entirely possible that long-standing records have been or will be exceeded).
Re:The first ever Red Extreme heat warning issued in UK
by layer8 on Friday July 15, 2022 @03:17PM
(#32111781)
Right. The more informative part is:
“This is the first time we have forecast 40°C in the UK. The current record high temperature in the UK is 38.7°C, which was reached at Cambridge Botanic Garden on 25 July in 2019. […] Some models are now producing a 50% chance of maximum temperatures in excess of 40°C in isolated parts of the UK for the start of next week. Mid, to high, 30s Celsius will be seen more widely with an 80% chance we will exceed the current record.”
Re:The first ever Red Extreme heat warning issued in UK
by irthomasthomas on Friday July 15, 2022 @05:51PM
(#32113189)
It's one day, and it hasn't happened yet. I'm sure we'll manage. Our Met Office are drama queens. They always have been [0], but they're getting worse.
Re:The first ever Red Extreme heat warning issued in UK
by ben_w on Friday July 15, 2022 @06:14PM
(#32113343)
That argument — it’s one day and hasn’t happened yet — is incompatible with your own previous comment.
Also, the cover of the Daily Mirror shows how much the Daily Mirror likes drama, not anything about whoever they’re discussing. Even moreso given who appears to have written that particular story and who was supposed to be getting warned…
Re:The first ever Red Extreme heat warning issued in UK
by irthomasthomas on Friday July 15, 2022 @07:16PM
(#32113739)
One comment was on the general trend, and the other on the specific, one day prediction. The old news article was quoting the Met Office. It was the Met that predicted 48C in the 90s.
Re:The first ever Red Extreme heat warning issued in UK
by ben_w on Saturday July 16, 2022 @03:21AM
(#32115928)
> One comment was on the general trend, and the other on the specific, one day prediction.
To the extent that the general trend exists, it's not just one day. To the extent that it is just one day, it can't be called a general trend. And switching from one to the other the moment someone criticises you reeks of moving goalposts.
> The old news article was quoting the Met Office. It was the Met that predicted 48C in the 90s.
Newspapers are creative fiction sometimes inspired by reality. Normally at this point I would link to the Gell-Mann amnesia effect, but in this case I'll quote from the same book you linked to ("Climates of the British Isles: Present, Past and Future", which included a copy of the front page of the Daily Mirror on page 264), but specifically the paragraph that references the exact image you linked to:
"""Newspaper accounts of interesting weather events
should always be taken with a large degree of caution
(see Figure 13.1) - even those penned by well-known
meteorological writers in the serious papers. This is
not their fault; it is because newspaper articles are
subject to the whim of a sub-editor. The newspaper
sub-editor is a strange breed with two goals. The
first is to force contributions to fit the space avail-
able, which may necessitate removing text, no matter
its importance, or creating new text without refer-
ence to the original author. The second is to make
these same contributions fit the style of the news
paper, which may involve extensive re-writing, again
without reference to the author. Furthermore, eye-
witness reports of unusual weather are notoriously
unreliable."""
In this case it's potentially even worse, as it was written by Alastair Campbell, who later worked for New Labour, criticising the leader of the Conservative Party.
But it's even worse than that. I couldn't read that text properly because it was too blurry so I looked for the original source, and the Met Office doesn't seem to be listed on that page. The headline "120 f is on the cards" actually says that Mrs Thatcher was at the National Centre for Atmospheric Research in Boulder Colorado, where climate change experts showed her a model that says if the world carries on increasing its rate of carbon dioxide production then "in extreme cases" it would reach 120… "The predictions were for the middle of the next century".
Re:The first ever Red Extreme heat warning issued in UK
by ChuckNorris89 on Friday July 15, 2022 @02:47PM
(#32111495)
At least the UK has the luxury (and downsides) of the breeze from the seas and the ocean, since it's an island. Meanwhile, on continental Europe, most landlocked countries are being cooked alive.
Bonus since many countries don't have AC in residential buildings.
Re:The first ever Red Extreme heat warning issued in UK
by petercooper on Friday July 15, 2022 @02:51PM
(#32111535)
You're right, though the effect of that only seems to go about 20 miles inland (which is a fair bit of the UK, to be fair). The other downside to being surrounded by sea is almost guaranteed high humidity which makes the heat far harder work (a la Florida vs Arizona).
Re:The first ever Red Extreme heat warning issued in UK
by zarzavat on Friday July 15, 2022 @04:27PM
(#32112410)
Many homes in UK are well insulated, at least compared to the wooden barns popular in the US. One day of extreme heat can be well tolerated, just by closing the windows in the morning. The problem is that it is very hard to expel the excess heat overnight, so a long series of merely moderately hot days can quickly render homes unbearable to live in.
Re:The first ever Red Extreme heat warning issued in UK
by idiotsecant on Friday July 15, 2022 @05:19PM
(#32112920)
You seem confused about U.S. building practices, the US is quite large and has varied climates and building codes on account of covering a good portion of a continent. The UK latitude would be most equivalent to US building code zone 6 or 7, which has building codes well exceeding the UK in terms of insulation and airtightness.
Re:The first ever Red Extreme heat warning issued in UK
by ben_w on Saturday July 16, 2022 @09:06AM
(#32117643)
The UK latitude mostly doesn't overlap with the USA, with only Scotland just about lining up with the southern tip of Alaska and everything else only overlapping with Canada.
Re:The first ever Red Extreme heat warning issued in UK
by adamc on Friday July 15, 2022 @02:57PM
(#32111604)
Here I was thinking, bad as 104 degree weather is in Texas, at least we all have AC, since life without it here is close to impossible. Huge problem in a place like Britain.
Re:The first ever Red Extreme heat warning issued in UK
by mytailorisrich on Friday July 15, 2022 @03:09PM
(#32111725)
It was 37+C (about 99-100F) today where I am at the moment (Southern Europe) and no AC but a traditional house with thick stone walls + shade and good air flow = all fine. Of course it was also dry heat.
Re:The first ever Red Extreme heat warning issued in UK
by r_hoods_ghost on Friday July 15, 2022 @03:56PM
(#32112101)
Something that is very cool (hah!) is that originally they used the coolness of the deep tube lines as a selling point in summer[1], but over the last century the surrounding clay has absorbed so much heat that the ambient temperature is something like 30°
[1] https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/cooling-the-tube-engine...
Re:The first ever Red Extreme heat warning issued in UK
by hanoz on Friday July 15, 2022 @04:46PM
(#32112626)
That is very cool. So if the capacity of the under ground to extract heat from the underground, is something that can diminish on a decades level timescale, what does that say about the longevity of ground source heat pumps I wonder?
Re:The first ever Red Extreme heat warning issued in UK
by Teever on Friday July 15, 2022 @07:56PM
(#32114008)
It depends on the composition of the ground and how heat pumps are used. In places like Canada with wild temperature variations over the course of the year heatpumps have the potential to be used as both a means to cool buildings in the summer, and then heat them in the winter with that stored heat.
Re:The first ever Red Extreme heat warning issued in UK
by jonatron on Friday July 15, 2022 @03:20PM
(#32111805)
You can avoid deep tube lines for many journeys. Elizabeth line, Thameslink, overground, circle, district are all air conditioned. I've definitely taken slightly longer routes to avoid the deep tube lines when it's been hot before.
“This is the first time we have forecast 40°C in the UK. The current record high temperature in the UK is 38.7°C, which was reached at Cambridge Botanic Garden on 25 July in 2019. […] Some models are now producing a 50% chance of maximum temperatures in excess of 40°C in isolated parts of the UK for the start of next week. Mid, to high, 30s Celsius will be seen more widely with an 80% chance we will exceed the current record.”
[0] https://books.google.co.uk/books/content?id=CSvCYDh4KkMC&pg=...
Also, the cover of the Daily Mirror shows how much the Daily Mirror likes drama, not anything about whoever they’re discussing. Even moreso given who appears to have written that particular story and who was supposed to be getting warned…
To the extent that the general trend exists, it's not just one day. To the extent that it is just one day, it can't be called a general trend. And switching from one to the other the moment someone criticises you reeks of moving goalposts.
> The old news article was quoting the Met Office. It was the Met that predicted 48C in the 90s.
Newspapers are creative fiction sometimes inspired by reality. Normally at this point I would link to the Gell-Mann amnesia effect, but in this case I'll quote from the same book you linked to ("Climates of the British Isles: Present, Past and Future", which included a copy of the front page of the Daily Mirror on page 264), but specifically the paragraph that references the exact image you linked to:
"""Newspaper accounts of interesting weather events should always be taken with a large degree of caution (see Figure 13.1) - even those penned by well-known meteorological writers in the serious papers. This is not their fault; it is because newspaper articles are subject to the whim of a sub-editor. The newspaper sub-editor is a strange breed with two goals. The first is to force contributions to fit the space avail- able, which may necessitate removing text, no matter its importance, or creating new text without refer- ence to the original author. The second is to make these same contributions fit the style of the news paper, which may involve extensive re-writing, again without reference to the author. Furthermore, eye- witness reports of unusual weather are notoriously unreliable."""
In this case it's potentially even worse, as it was written by Alastair Campbell, who later worked for New Labour, criticising the leader of the Conservative Party.
But it's even worse than that. I couldn't read that text properly because it was too blurry so I looked for the original source, and the Met Office doesn't seem to be listed on that page. The headline "120 f is on the cards" actually says that Mrs Thatcher was at the National Centre for Atmospheric Research in Boulder Colorado, where climate change experts showed her a model that says if the world carries on increasing its rate of carbon dioxide production then "in extreme cases" it would reach 120… "The predictions were for the middle of the next century".
Bonus since many countries don't have AC in residential buildings.
Forecast for England pretty much matches that for France.
But go 10 miles inland and it’s a desert where 30C+ is typical for a good part of the year.
The UK climate is more like Seattle.
Is this map right? If so, that would be a zone 4? https://www.ecohome.net/guides/3521/climate-zones-map-usa-ca...
I have no idea if that makes any difference to your core point.