> In NYC the most dangerous areas are pretty far out from Manhattan

East Harlem (part of Manhattan) is as dangerous as the Bronx and is very different from the Chelsea where you live. Manhattan is not a uniformly safe place. Also, NYC subway is filthy, disgusting and sometimes plain dangerous. Car traffic is worse than before COVID. There seem to be more cars on the streets, for people are avoiding subway and are using cars more often than before.

East Harlem is a relatively small neighborhood, the Bronx is an entire borough. There are parts of the Bronx that are both significantly more and less dangerous than East Harlem (Mott Haven and Riverdale come to mind, respectively).

None (or at least few) of the folks you’re gonna see on HN are going to be in the income bracket where they’re going to be living in East Harlem. It’s about half an hour from the places where things happen, at least, and might as well be an outer borough for most intents and purposes, given transit times, even if it’s technically within the stated geographical limits of Manhattan.

This might have been true 25 years ago, but all of South and East Harlem has been experiencing steady gentrification for the last decade. Most of that is coming from young families, from my experience living in South Harlem.

(There are lots of attractions to the neighborhood: old buildings, pretty side streets, good food, convenient access to museums, and one of the most reliable subway lines in the system.)

Former Harlem resident chiming in here as an additional, concurring datapoint.

I didn't fit the traditional Harlem demographic (ex-FAANG employee, startup founder, etc) but found the neighborhood to have solid access to the rest of Manhattan, an increasing number of amenities, proximity to Central Park, and an overall appealing character compared to the increasingly sterile areas of Manhattan

If/when I move back to NYC I would certainly consider living in Harlem again.

Eh. I wouldn't jump the gun on that claim.

"Where things happen", aka Manhattan? Tbh, Manhattan kinda blows these days. It's more or less a sterile, disneyified, yuppy, consumerist grazing ground from 100th down, with the exception of alphabet city and Chinatown. But even Chinatown's changing, unfortunately. Feels like the old Chinatown Fair shutting down was a signal.

Idk Manhattan has a few solid areas that have held up over the years, but I personally try to avoid it unless my boys and I have a skate session or heading to a museum.

Also, the commute from the boroughs really isn't bad. If you really need to get to Manhattan you're probably looking at 45-50 min on average, which is whatever... unless you live in bumfuck nowhere where there's not a stop within a mile or two.

45 minutes each way in the subway so I can hang with my boys in a non Disney outer borough

Point being? It's likely you got friends throughout the boroughs and not just Manhattan, unless you just came here for a job. 45 min one way, 1.5 hrs both ways, is nothing. Especially if it means seeing the people you love.

It's more or less 30 min minimum to get anywhere regardless of location and there are beautiful and interesting spots all over this city, not just Manhattan. Why not explore?

I’ve lived in nyc for 20+ years, moving from a country that is “hundreds of times safer”. I’ve never felt unsafe.

As others remarked correctly, aggregated numbers are useless and not representative for the avg person. If you truncate NYC’s crime numbers by stripping out high crime areas such as Brownsville or the South Bronx, crime here is shockingly low. Even more so if you correct for crime that would be er affect you unless you’re in some sort of drug gang (many of the violent crimes are gang on gang crimes).

Also saw folks here mention East Harlem — I assume that’s a joke?! That hasn’t been a “dangerous” neighborhood for 35+ years. It’s now a very sought after area esp. for families, and it’s got plenty of artisanal BS stores that come with gentrified areas. I can’t afford to rent there.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-06-07/is-new...

Brownsville is still dangerous? For some reason I thought they were calming down there and East New York was the dodgy place now in Brooklyn. And Yeah Harlem seems to be on the up and up.

>"The NYC crime rate varies wildly by neighborhood so I don't think its very useful to compare city-wide crime stats. For example, the felony assault rate is literally 10x higher in parts of the Bronx than on the UES. If you live and work in safer neighborhoods the city will appear to be very safe to you."

This makes no sense. It's a mobile city. You can live on the UWS but have to go downtown to see a doctor, or work in midtown but commute in from the Bronx or Queens to go to work. The vast majority do not live and work in the same neighborhood let alone work and live in the same nice and safe neighborhood.

>"Anecdotally I lived in Chelsea and worked in Union Square for a few years and never witnessed any real crime, violent or otherwise."

Not only is that a walking commute but there is literally not a single bad block between anywhere in Chelsea and Union Square.

>"The neighborhoods in a city you pass through on a day to day basis really matter in terms of defining your experience."

Yes exactly, where do you think all of the service workers that are back bone of the city travel through on their commute, often at night? Hint, it's not Chelsea.

I think you and GP are on the same page. GP isn’t saying that life in the city is safe for everyone, the point is that it is safe for some, depending on where they frequent, how/where the commute, etc.

If I was thinking of moving to somewhere in NYC, I would want to know just that: could I live there safely? If someone answers that topic with “well, many people are exposed to crime, and it’s really unfortunate, and change is really desired”, that’s all true, but that doesn’t answer my question. If one were to tell me “yes, it can be fairly safe if you have the means to live here, and commute over there, and mostly hang around this place”, that doesn’t somehow minimize or deny the plight of those who are less fortunate. These are two separate topics that are both worth discussing.

Edit:

I now live in Dallas. I don’t know about crime stats at the moment, but if you’ll allow me to speak of how safe I feel in the city: I would say that there’s no way to live in Dallas (assuming you want an active social life that involves music, drinks, shows, etc) that feels safe. The usual hangout spots in Dallas (e.g. Deep Ellum) are right next to shady overpasses, sections of street with vacant buildings with busted out windows and broken street lights. So much of the city is in a state of disrepair. I feel like I’m gambling with my life if I go anywhere remotely interesting in Dallas.

When I lived in Carrol Gardens in Brooklyn, I could walk to the coffee shop, or go to dozens of great restaurants and shops, get late night tacos or pizza, and never feel like I was in a sketchy area. Granted, I was privileged to have the means to live where I did.

If someone then asks me where I would prefer to live on the basis of apparent safety, I would say Brooklyn. If I was then asked if everyone feels safe in Brooklyn, I would say “no” — if you live in a low income, high crime area, you’re not going to feel safe — and that’s an unfortunate reality for many people. Both things are simultaneously true.

Except crime is also random. The person that was shot on subway in May was an investment banker who lived in a nice area and had means. He was simply on his way to brunch on a Sunday morning:

https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/23/business/goldman-sachs-employ...

So essentially, the assertion should be “NYC has some of the safest neighborhoods in fhe country”

Which is not really the same thing at all…

That's gotta be similarly true for a lot of major cities though don't you think? Vancouver, BC is broadly quite safe, unless you drive, have a car centric cycling route, or walk down certain streets in the downtown Eastside during particular times of the week or day alone

But a city is the sum of all its residents. Saying that the well-off parts of the city are safe and ergo, the city is safe reeks of incredible privilege - that crime is okay as long as the people who suffer from it are the poor.

There is a massive difference between "an overall very safe city with a few small dangerous neighborhoods/areas" and "an overall dangerous city with a few small safe neighborhoods/areas".

I suppose that's true, but is it as true if there's literally only one area that most people should probably be much more cautious in for objectively more intense safety reasons or unpredictability?

Whats up with Manhattans South Precinct (the roughly square section south of Central Park? For just about all of the categories of crime on this map, it consistently ranks as the worst area in the whole city across all five boroughs. Seems weird for this to be happening in a core section of Manhattan itself.

That precinct has Times Square as well as multiple train and bus stations (Port Authority, Penn Station and Grand Central). So tons of people passing through daily, many of whom are easy crime targets like tourists.

My understanding is NY state prisons bus felons being let out at the NYC bus stops here as well. Many of them have no where to go other than homeless shelters and tend to cause crime again.

It’s midtown so it’s a tourist hub. Tourists are more likely to be targeted for almost all crimes. Plus they report it more.

> Plus they report it more.

The implication there is that the areas with fewer tourists have higher true rates of crime than the official stats, which makes the overall case worse...

But other places also have underreported crime. In a place where police take 30 minutes to arrive it might not be worth it to call the police for some minor things.

> In NYC the most dangerous areas are pretty far out from Manhattan

That's not true, and my stats above are solely Manhattan.

You are right, I meant downtown Manhattan. There are plenty of neighborhoods above 96th street with disproportionate amounts of crime.

> The NYC crime rate varies wildly by neighborhood so I don't think its very useful to compare city-wide crime stats.

I find it amazing that in the US, you can walk from one neighborhood into the other, and suddenly have it be 100x more dangerous.

It’s so apparent that I’m still surprised.