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Re:Woman ‘dehumanised’ by viral TikTok filmed without her co... by sva_ on Thursday July 14, 2022 @09:58AM (#32096173)
With the amount of beggars in cities, I already highly distrust anyone who comes up to me to speak to me. 99 out of 100 times it is someone who tries to somehow enrich themselves.
Re:Woman ‘dehumanised’ by viral TikTok filmed without her co... by jcpst on Thursday July 14, 2022 @10:16AM (#32096358)
When I was poor and eating at the soup kitchen, I spent a lot of time with people that lived on the street. Most of them were decent people in a bad situation. Sure, a healthy dose of distrust is smart. But I think it's worth it to not totally distrust anyone who is that hard up.
Re:Woman ‘dehumanised’ by viral TikTok filmed without her co... by corrral on Thursday July 14, 2022 @01:04PM (#32098687)
Tricking you into taking flowers and then trying to charge for them is already a Whole Thing, too. Not that that makes what they did any better, but this specific behavior sets off "scam" alarm bells for me.
Re:Woman ‘dehumanised’ by viral TikTok filmed without her co... by sva_ on Thursday July 14, 2022 @04:26PM (#32101021)
I mean they've been doing that in Paris for quite some time when you're walking with someone. 'What you don't want to buy roses for 50 euro? Is your girlfriend not worth it to you?'

Luckily my girlfriend told the guy to put his roses some place I may not mention here.

Re:Woman ‘dehumanised’ by viral TikTok filmed without her co... by corrral on Thursday July 14, 2022 @04:47PM (#32101260)
Haha, Paris was exactly what I was thinking of. "Pretty lady, flower for you! You want flower? Flower for you, pretty flower for a pretty lady," pressing the flower toward the woman as if trying to give it away for free, and then if she takes it, "that'll be [insane price for a flower]", hand out for payment, and resisting taking it back.

Your best policy in public in a major city is to internalize Tony Stark's strong aversion to being handed things.

Re:Woman ‘dehumanised’ by viral TikTok filmed without her co... by JetAlone on Friday July 15, 2022 @02:59AM (#32105436)
Sounds to me like your girlfriend is worth having self-respect for.
Re:Woman ‘dehumanised’ by viral TikTok filmed without her co... by naillo on Thursday July 14, 2022 @10:01AM (#32096210)
Please be more empathetic to people who beg for money.
Re:Woman ‘dehumanised’ by viral TikTok filmed without her co... by tomc1985 on Thursday July 14, 2022 @10:41AM (#32096648)
Do you live somewhere that is being overrun by homeless? Like the west coast for example?

Because it is really, really hard to be empathetic with the homeless folks here, based on how they behave.

Re:Woman ‘dehumanised’ by viral TikTok filmed without her co... by DocTomoe on Thursday July 14, 2022 @12:14PM (#32097943)
It is almost as if forcing people who need professional psychiatric help out of the psychiatric clinics and putting them to their 'freedom' somehow has diametral effects on societal health.

Maybe you shouldn't put these people in the same category. Not everyone living in the street is the same. Some are just poor. Some need medical and/or psychiatrical help. Some may be on the street by choice (see: Hobos (meant in the 'going from town to town, often by freight train or hitchhiking' sense)).

Re:Woman ‘dehumanised’ by viral TikTok filmed without her co... by tomc1985 on Thursday July 14, 2022 @12:35PM (#32098263)
The other day at the transit station there was a man sitting on a bench with a shopping cart of his stuff, having a loud argument with nobody in particular. Like shouting at the top of his lungs, for at least a half hour.

A couple of weeks ago I had to avoid an altercation with a woman who talking to herself on the subway, she didn't like the way I "looked" at her as I was doing my best to mind my own business. She starts mad-dogging me and then darts off the train.

Every so often a transient blocks the stoplight at a large, 6-lane intersection near my house, because he decided to ignore the crossing signal, and sometimes even the crosswalks.

My young sister doesn't feel safe walking home on certain routes as there are groups of disheveled men hanging out doing nothing in particular. I've counted over a dozen of them, blocking the sidewalk and sometimes a lane or two on the street.

The strip mall near my house has had to fence off certain areas open spaces because they had a habit of hosting impromptu bike chop shops.

A woman who owns a local tasting room at said strip-mall has told me multiple stories of shenanigans with the local transients, as they like to get into trouble in their outdoor bathrooms, and her business has the closest key.

Last week a man was sucker-punched because he asked a transient, who was sleeping in his car, to leave. (The man who got punched needed to drive to work.)

Last year a woman was stabbed with a needle by a transient while waiting in line at a drive-thru.

My city's local subreddits are rife with complaints and specific altercations. Most city parks are or have homeless encampments, and you can find them pretty much anywhere that there is unattended open space. My city even opened a safe zone for unhoused to camp, with police supervision and outreach resources available, and had to shut it down due to lack of use.

City police generally do nothing; they are underfunded, understaffed, and still butthurt from the BLM protests and imposed COVID policies. Some of the videos that have been posted online have been downright childish.

I know that not everybody is the same, and there are a handful of locals that I see repeatedly and know to be decent folk, but it is extremely difficult to be charitable with a narrative like this. And I am aware of other cities around here that have it much worse.

There are areas of town that I used to enjoy walking through, but now they smell of a shit and piss. People are not quite as destitute as some of the South American cities I've walked around, but it feels like we are getting closer to that.

If the homeless, as a group, would control/behave themselves people might have a different attitude. But they don't, and it takes a long time to recognize whether a specific individual is worth helping or not.

Re:Woman ‘dehumanised’ by viral TikTok filmed without her co... by msrenee on Thursday July 14, 2022 @12:56PM (#32098554)
You understand that most of these are examples of mental illness, right? It would be great if schizophrenic people would behave themselves, but kind of the whole deal is that they can't.
Re:Woman ‘dehumanised’ by viral TikTok filmed without her co... by tomc1985 on Thursday July 14, 2022 @01:12PM (#32098800)
Many, not most. Meth is a huge problem here.
Re:Woman ‘dehumanised’ by viral TikTok filmed without her co... by xzel on Thursday July 14, 2022 @02:57PM (#32100085)
I think most people would consider drug addiction a mental illness. If not it often is being used as a coping mechanism for mental illness or something else. Being able to empathize with people who are struggling is exactly what OP was talking about.
Re:Woman ‘dehumanised’ by viral TikTok filmed without her co... by tomc1985 on Thursday July 14, 2022 @04:45PM (#32101228)
And at what point do those people who made the choice to be drug addicts deplete the goodwill that is afforded to them?

This isn't Minnesota or New York City. Our winters are mild; you don't need meth to stay warm at night, and the transients here tend to have more than enough clothing to stay warm when it gets into the low 50s/40s.

In fact this mild weather is probably why we have so many of them literally dumped on us. (Dumped, as in, given a one-way ticket to a sunny, seaside city of their choice)

Community policing programs work, just look at the success that Urban Alchemy has had in Los Angeles and San Francisco. The community is more than capable of policing itself, but it doesn't.

Re:Woman ‘dehumanised’ by viral TikTok filmed without her co... by closewith on Thursday July 14, 2022 @05:21PM (#32101604)
> And at what point do those people who made the choice to be drug addicts deplete the goodwill that is afforded to them?

With respect, do you believe people choose to become addicts?

Re:Woman ‘dehumanised’ by viral TikTok filmed without her co... by tomc1985 on Thursday July 14, 2022 @05:57PM (#32101937)
They choose to take drugs with widely-known addictive properties, so yes.

I'm not talking about opoids which were sold to folks as non-habit-forming for a long time. Or other cases of addiction without consent. But I don't think that is the case here, for the majority of people.

Re:Woman ‘dehumanised’ by viral TikTok filmed without her co... by closewith on Thursday July 14, 2022 @06:02PM (#32101985)
I think this is a harsh and somewhat antiquated take on addiction, if I'm honest. I hope the curse of addiction never falls on you.
Re:Woman ‘dehumanised’ by viral TikTok filmed without her co... by DocTomoe on Thursday July 14, 2022 @01:25PM (#32098986)
One of the side effects of Meth use: Psychotic episodes [1]

[1] https://www.drugs.com/sfx/methamphetamine-side-effects.html

Re:Woman ‘dehumanised’ by viral TikTok filmed without her co... by msrenee on Thursday July 14, 2022 @03:03PM (#32100165)
I don't see how that refutes my argument.
Re:Woman ‘dehumanised’ by viral TikTok filmed without her co... by todorus on Thursday July 14, 2022 @05:10PM (#32101504)
Neither does it his. It is a problem for some areas to the point it will completely erode the empathy of people who have to live with it. Their stake is not an internet argument, but a daily reality to deal with.

You can then argue that it's caused by mental illness and we should be empathetic, but I've talked to multiple people who actually worked in psych wards, my mother being one of them. They know they need to take care of them and be empathetic, but boy don't they all have stories to tell that has caused them to dehumanize them to some extent, or suffer burnout as the alternative.

Don't just empathize with the mentally ill, but also the others you so easily burden with doing the actual work.

Re:Woman ‘dehumanised’ by viral TikTok filmed without her co... by msrenee on Friday July 15, 2022 @07:28PM (#32113826)
Are the only healthcare professionals you know in psych wards? Dark humor and "dehumanize"-ing patients is standard coping for nurses, doctors, and basically anyone else who deals with the physically and mentally ill. That doesn't mean that they don't have empathy for them and understand that there's a fundamental disconnect between societal norms and their behavior.

The person I replied to posted a laundry list of complaints about when those damn homeless jerks made them uncomfortable after saying they are so hard to empathize with. It's so whiny and disconnected from the actual hardships that caused these people to behave this way. Why can't they just be clean and polite and normal?

Re:Woman ‘dehumanised’ by viral TikTok filmed without her co... by tomc1985 on Thursday July 14, 2022 @04:27PM (#32101040)
So how do we get these people to stop harassing folks?
Re:Woman ‘dehumanised’ by viral TikTok filmed without her co... by DocTomoe on Friday July 15, 2022 @02:50AM (#32105375)
Put them under psychiatric evaluation, e.g. in a ward. Someone who is in a hospital is not able to harass people on the streets.

But for that, you'd need a functioning healthcare system.

Re:Woman ‘dehumanised’ by viral TikTok filmed without her co... by sva_ on Thursday July 14, 2022 @04:14PM (#32100922)
Glancing over my comment again, I can see it appearing fairly heartless, if you have the archetypal image of a homeless guy who's laying at the side of the road in your head.

But I don't even mean those or have that much of an issue with them (there aren't many of those here.)

What I mainly had in mind is a phenomenon that may not be very common outside my country (idk). I live in a country with social healthcare and government welfare for those who have no work. The people who are running from person to person in the streets begging for money aren't really needy. They most likely already collect welfare from the government, and they additionally beg as they don't want to work, and the welfare office can't deduct that money from what they get, since it isn't documented.

These are healthy looking young guys in their mid-20s or so, who are completely able-bodied, well dressed, and they're begging as if it is their fulltime job. It's apparently pretty lucrative, else there wouldn't so many of them be doing it.

They've recently become a lot more brazen in their tactics and will verbally assault and sometimes even follow you around for not giving them anything. They ask for money for food as they claim to be hungry, but when you offer to buy them some food they get angry with you as well.

These people aren't needy, and there are so many of them now that I've grown so tired of it that I first started completely avoiding downtown, and ultimately also moved somewhere else (there were other reasons of course.)

I don't have any problem helping someone who's really down on their luck (and you can usually see it pretty easily), but I'd never give money, always offer to buy them food instead. I also point them towards various places they can go to get food/shelter/help.

I'm angry at those who abuse the goodwill of people because they've turned that city I loved so much into a place where everybody always tries to quickly get-in-and-out, never look someone into their eyes, because that might prompt them to try to manipulate you into giving them money, and just generally turned downtown into a place where everyone constantly wants to rush through and avoid any contact with others.

I'm not just blaming those beggars, I also blame the people who give them money. People need to stop falling for this, it turns cities into shit.

Anyways, enough ranting for tonight...

Re:Woman ‘dehumanised’ by viral TikTok filmed without her co... by cultofmetatron on Thursday July 14, 2022 @11:16AM (#32097081)
try living in a city with a lot of them. you get tired of their shit REAL fast.

I've seen too many literal dicks just getting off the BART.

[dead]
Re:Woman ‘dehumanised’ by viral TikTok filmed without her co... by revolvingocelot on Thursday July 14, 2022 @10:41AM (#32096654)
Arguments of the form "So $MISREPRESENTATION_OF_STATED_OPINION" are disappointing to see here. I don't think you really think that the grandparent is suggesting that to be "more empathetic to people who beg for money" is to invite them to Thanksgiving or give them your bed.

Consider visiting Reddit, where discourse of the form "So $MISREPRESENTATION_OF_STATED_OPINION" is more accepted.

[dead]
Re:Woman ‘dehumanised’ by viral TikTok filmed without her co... by phpnode on Thursday July 14, 2022 @10:53AM (#32096806)
that's not what empathy means, you don't have to house someone to feel empathy for them. In this case, I'd say don't judge them so harshly because they're a product of a failing social system. They're the consequence of society's collective decisions and priorities.
Re:Woman ‘dehumanised’ by viral TikTok filmed without her co... by tuxie_ on Thursday July 14, 2022 @10:48AM (#32096752)
Is that what empathy means to you?
Re:Woman ‘dehumanised’ by viral TikTok filmed without her co... by jasonladuke0311 on Thursday July 14, 2022 @11:01AM (#32096894)
Go walk around Capitol Hill in Denver.
Re:Woman ‘dehumanised’ by viral TikTok filmed without her co... by djmips on Thursday July 14, 2022 @10:43PM (#32104056)
Where I grew up it seemed like a lot of people who randomly struck up a conversation wanted to recruit you into a multi level marketing organization and another bunch who wanted to recruit you to their religion. Kind of depressing that it seemed few that just wanted to talk.