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Re:The euro and the dollar are a penny away from parity for ... by treis on Monday July 11, 2022 @11:50AM (#32057739)
The US & Canada are energy independent (or at least equalized imports/exports) and food exporters. The EU is a net importer of both so pretty clear why recent events would favor the US/Canada & not the EU.
Re:The euro and the dollar are a penny away from parity for ... by nivenkos on Monday July 11, 2022 @11:55AM (#32057812)
And the US + Canada are doing the LNG exports to Europe now.

It's a massive win for the US, the arms exports too.

Re:The euro and the dollar are a penny away from parity for ... by throwaway_4ever on Monday July 11, 2022 @12:53PM (#32058611)
> It's a massive win for the US, the arms exports too.

No, it’s not. Half our politicians are pissed we’re spending $40 billion.

Re:The euro and the dollar are a penny away from parity for ... by soco on Monday July 11, 2022 @01:34PM (#32059108)
Doesn't that get - at least in part - compensated by the oil/gas exports?
Re:The euro and the dollar are a penny away from parity for ... by mytailorisrich on Monday July 11, 2022 @11:53AM (#32057788)
It certainly explains why the US pushed so much for sanctions against Russia, and it's less clear why Europe so enthusiastically shot itself in the foot by following suit.

Edit: this is not a "minor economic pain" for Europe and might reach extreme consequences later this year.

On the other hand, the US have played extremely well, gaining on all fronts (increased influence through enlarged Nato and, increased weapons sales, increases oil/gas profits), while China is left in an awkward position. Only downside seems to have been the push for alternatives to dollar/western-centric financial system.

Re:The euro and the dollar are a penny away from parity for ... by khuey on Monday July 11, 2022 @11:58AM (#32057846)
I think the motivation for the EU attempting to deter war on its eastern borders is straightforward.
Re:The euro and the dollar are a penny away from parity for ... by makomk on Monday July 11, 2022 @01:22PM (#32058955)
Extremely straightforward, yes. What I don't think a lot of Americans get is just how utterly, terrifyingly destructive the wars of conquest that preceded the current era of peace were for Europe - especially the two world wars. Large chunks of entire generations killed, wounded and traumatized, whole citities levelled, regions rendered unfit for anything beyond farming. One of the major justifications for the European Union as an institution was to supposedly ensure that nothing like this would happen again. Now we have a brutal war of conquest right next to the EU's eastern border, and sabre-rattling about how some of its member states might be next. It's in the direct self-preservation interest of a lot of countries that Russia fails and fails hard.
Re:The euro and the dollar are a penny away from parity for ... by systemvoltage on Monday July 11, 2022 @05:40PM (#32062286)
Meanwhile, Mark Rutte and other EU politicians are impacting livelihood of Dutch farmers to meet some Nitrogen emission targets by 2030.

There is a farmer's revolt in Netherlands that's not covered by American media for some reason, but dw and Politico is: https://www.politico.eu/article/police-fire-dutch-farmer-pro...

This is the exact wrong time to do these things. First, you need a strong economy and a backbone that can sustain sustainable practices. Otherwise, the cost of climate change is acceptable over literal starvation, insurrection (Sri Lanka) and other destructive effects in the society.

Has anyone done serious and with good faith, balance and ROI of some of these climate change policies? Note that I am not challenging the validity of CC science, just the economic policies. I hope that its open for debate.

Re:The euro and the dollar are a penny away from parity for ... by mytailorisrich on Monday July 11, 2022 @01:55PM (#32059407)
It's not straightforward, it's simplistic, and a way to scare people into accepting a narrative (like turning public opinion into agreeing to join Nato in some countries...)

Europe (EU/Nato) is not at risk of attack by Russia. It's not clear why Finland would suddenly be at risk.

What is happening is a continuation of the fall of the USSR when Russia lost very big and was hastily written off. Russia has somewhat recovered and is asserting its claims and interests. While we should hold firm when this clashes with our own, saying that Russia should be beaten into submission is not going to work and is only going to perpetuate conflicts.

As it stands Russia is going to take the Donbas, and it took Crimea back in 2014. So the question is where we go from there. They are not going to hand those territories back to anyone. So we need to negotiate spheres of influence backed by serious force as was the case before the fall of the USSR.

The proposal to have a neutral Ukraine was sensible provided all parties are very seriously held to their word.

Lastly, we should remember that Crimea used to be Russian until very recently and that Ukraine is very special for Russia, so it's far from obvious to me that what they are doing there means they plan to attack/invade other neighbouring countries afterwards...

Re:The euro and the dollar are a penny away from parity for ... by jleyank on Monday July 11, 2022 @03:33PM (#32060696)
Except that Russia broke agreements to respect Ukraine, which is why (obviously foolishly) they agreed to give up their nuclear arms. This affair has (again) shown the the only way to guarantee the survival of you country is to be able to respond with a sufficiently high pain level. This is a lesson that Iraq, North Korea, Israel, Pakistan and probably Taiwan and Germany have taken to heart.
Re:The euro and the dollar are a penny away from parity for ... by jusssi on Monday July 11, 2022 @02:56PM (#32060202)
> It's not clear why Finland would suddenly be at risk.

It's not that we're now suddenly at risk, it's more that we were at risk all the time and now we finally understand it.

Also the highly visible "special operation" allows Russia a whole new level of pressuring us into various things. The message we're seeing is "if we decide to fuck you up, we don't much care if a bunch of our boys get hurt in the process". Which pretty much renders useless any "credible defense deterrent" which isn't an existential threat to them.

> like turning public opinion into agreeing to join Nato in some countries

The change of public opinion as result of the actions we've seen was such an obvious consequence, it makes me wonder if it wasn't one of the effects Putin wanted to get out of this campaign.

Re:The euro and the dollar are a penny away from parity for ... by mytailorisrich on Monday July 11, 2022 @03:20PM (#32060523)
This is beyond "drinking the Kool-Aid" at this point, and very skillfully organised mass hysteria.

Finland, which kept relatively good relations with the USSR throughout the Cold War had actually been at extreme risk all along and must join Nato right now. Right... well at least they have a long border with Russia, not like Sweden... As long as they order F-35s everything's cool, I guess.

Re:The euro and the dollar are a penny away from parity for ... by jusssi on Monday July 11, 2022 @03:38PM (#32060763)
The "relatively good relations" you speak of came with a great amount of licking ass and simultaneously preparing for the worst. It's not something we want to go back to.

It's probably something that's hard to understand from a comfy armchair half a world away, so I guess that's an excuse for the condescending tone.

Re:The euro and the dollar are a penny away from parity for ... by mannerheim on Monday July 11, 2022 @05:14PM (#32061958)
Finlandisation is a dirty word in Finland. 'Good relations' were maintained by giving up an independent foreign policy, allowing Soviet-funded political parties, and censorship of anti-Soviet press. They were 'good relations' for the Soviets - not so much for the Finns.
Re:The euro and the dollar are a penny away from parity for ... by coremoff on Monday July 11, 2022 @11:56AM (#32057823)
> so enthusiastically shot itself into foot

is rather unfair I think - there are very good reasons why an unpleasant action might be necessary

Re:The euro and the dollar are a penny away from parity for ... by mytailorisrich on Monday July 11, 2022 @12:04PM (#32057951)
Well, so far this hasn't deterred anything nor apparently slowed Russia down but it has had massively negative consequences for Europe.

In general, basic self-interest in geopolitics means to always to something only with a clear upside for yourselves (duh)

With the energy prices as they stand, the UK for example is heading for a social and potentially humanitarian disaster this winter. I don't see how "being firm against Putin" or "Ukraine" justify it.

Re:The euro and the dollar are a penny away from parity for ... by lindly on Monday July 11, 2022 @12:26PM (#32058264)
>Well, so far this hasn't deterred anything nor apparently slowed Russia down but it has had massively negative consequences for Europe.

This a ridiculous absurd assumption. Russia has massive supply issues for just about everything, including defense related industries.

>In general, basic self-interest in geopolitics means to always to something only with a clear upside for yourselves (duh)

[Citation needed]. If the downsides for your enemy are massive it makes sense to take a hit your self. In fact Putin did count on the west to continue it's cynical way of doing business like it did after all the previous Russian wars (Chechnya 1/2, Georgia, Syria, Crimea, Donbass). I'm sure, if the EU could have made the threat of doing what it did later, this would have deterred the invasion. It just didn't have any credibility due to past decisions. But now future threats should be take more seriously. This might stabilize the world as a hole.

>I don't see how "being firm against Putin" or "Ukraine" justify it.

The next winter is going to suck and most people might not have realized that. But speaking of humanitarian disasters, this is our best bet to avoid a way, way bigger humanitarian disaster in the baltics.

Re:The euro and the dollar are a penny away from parity for ... by EB-Barrington on Monday July 11, 2022 @05:32PM (#32062181)
Russians are raping and executing civilians, and Russian authorities have stated on more than one occasion that other countries beyond Ukraine will also be punished.

What extra justification is needed?

Re:The euro and the dollar are a penny away from parity for ... by coward-guy on Saturday July 23, 2022 @04:25PM (#32207252)
Ombudsman Denisova was sacked for excessive lies about woman rapes.

The Commissioner of the President of Ukraine for Children's Rights Daria Gerasimchuk on the Polish TV channel "Belsat" exposed fake Ukrainian propaganda about the alleged violence by the Russian military against Ukrainian children. Proof: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfUBRGUH-Kc

The Prosecutor General's Office of Ukraine has not a single confirmed fact of violence so far.

Re:The euro and the dollar are a penny away from parity for ... by pydry on Monday July 11, 2022 @12:03PM (#32057946)
Germany is set to run out of gas during winter under optimistic scenarios. This is looking less like a bit of unpleasantness and more like economic suicide by the day.

LNG is not going to suffice. There isnt even the port capacity to bring it in. Rationing would have to be extreme just to ride out the winter. And then what?

Hitting the economic self destruct button so that Ukraine reserves the right to join NATO doesnt look so appealing any more.

Re:The euro and the dollar are a penny away from parity for ... by Retric on Monday July 11, 2022 @12:15PM (#32058103)
Running out in this case just means a spike in prices or the dreaded rationing. Lowering thermostats can dramatically reduce fuel consumption, how to achieve that nationwide is an open question.
Re:The euro and the dollar are a penny away from parity for ... by rohitb91 on Monday July 11, 2022 @01:34PM (#32059113)
And if it's a cold winter? And if buildings can't be heated and pipes burst? If businesses shutdown because of freezes?
Re:The euro and the dollar are a penny away from parity for ... by Retric on Monday July 11, 2022 @01:43PM (#32059232)
It takes vastly less energy to keep pipes from freezing than it does to keep indoor temperatures at ~70f.

If supplies where dropping 80% Germany would be facing real issues, but that's not the scale we are talking about.

Re:The euro and the dollar are a penny away from parity for ... by HWR_14 on Monday July 11, 2022 @12:27PM (#32058283)
Probably because relatively minor economic pain now is better than a dictator with imperial ambitions starting another European war. I mean, how much is Lithuania or Poland worth? Or if he keeps rolling West, how much do the Germans want to sacrifice now to make it less likely Berlin ends up under Russian control.
Re:The euro and the dollar are a penny away from parity for ... by laGrenouille on Monday July 11, 2022 @12:00PM (#32057892)
But arguably the EU is even more motivated by the security issues of an emboldened Russia. Combined with the much stronger environmental push from groups in Europe, it seems reasonable that they would push as much or more for energy-based sanctions against Russia.
Re:The euro and the dollar are a penny away from parity for ... by mytailorisrich on Monday July 11, 2022 @12:08PM (#32058011)
There is no to very little security issues. Russia is never going to attack the EU/Nato, which are many times stronger that it is, and we've seen that Russia is already struggling in Ukraine.

At the moment Europe is going through a self-inflicted crisis that is not justified, be it by security or "the environment".

It may be reasonable to decrease dependency on Russia but the sensible way is to have alternatives in place first.

Edit: Baltic states are in Nato, so my comment fully applies to them.

Saying that "Russia did invade Ukraine so they could attack Nato" is equivalent to saying "the US invaded Iraq so they could attack China". It is plainly a rhetorical fallacy.

Re:The euro and the dollar are a penny away from parity for ... by jleyank on Monday July 11, 2022 @12:17PM (#32058120)
Err, baltic states? Formerly part of USSR albeit only since 1940.

EDIT: Finland was also part of Russia.

Re:The euro and the dollar are a penny away from parity for ... by ben_w on Monday July 11, 2022 @12:14PM (#32058081)
How much are you willing to bet on that? I saw plenty of people saying before the invasion that it would be irrational for Putin to invade and therefore he wouldn't. He did it anyway and we can easily see from how badly it's gone so far that it wasn't rational, so the obvious conclusion is that he's not acting rationally.
Re:The euro and the dollar are a penny away from parity for ... by jleyank on Monday July 11, 2022 @12:28PM (#32058303)
He might be relying on people's grasp of history being terrible and that they have far more desire to be warm than concerned about naked aggression. Which is probably true, although frustrating after all of the examples Europe provided itself in the 1800's and 1900's.
Re:The euro and the dollar are a penny away from parity for ... by treis on Monday July 11, 2022 @01:24PM (#32058989)
>I saw plenty of people saying before the invasion that it would be irrational for Putin to invade and therefore he wouldn't.

I didn't, but nevertheless there's a difference between "it's irrational because the cost is higher than the benefit" and "it's irrational because there's no benefit to getting your ass kicked".

Re:The euro and the dollar are a penny away from parity for ... by ben_w on Monday July 11, 2022 @03:05PM (#32060320)
Isn’t one of those a subset of the other? Both look kinda like they’re applicable to Russia right now, but I’m aware my sense of scale may be wrong for stuff like this.
Re:The euro and the dollar are a penny away from parity for ... by ben_w on Monday July 11, 2022 @12:07PM (#32057991)
> Europe so enthusiastically shot itself in the foot

The alternative is letting Putin continue to believe that his vision of Russian irredentism — which could very easily go right though my home in Berlin and not stop for a further 100 miles or so — is something the rest of us will sit back and allow.

Putin started a war, even if he hasn't officially called it one yet. Hopefully it will be stopped before he does call it that, but nothing about his decision to invade Ukraine appears either rational or connected with reality.

Re:The euro and the dollar are a penny away from parity for ... by nivenkos on Monday July 11, 2022 @12:14PM (#32058084)
> The alternative is letting Putin continue to believe that his vision of Russian irredentism — which could very easily go right though my home in Berlin

Maybe if Germany had Russian-majority areas, had started banning the use of Russian, and had violent demonstration clashes resulting in neo-Nazis burning ethnic Russian supporters and seperatists alive - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Odessa_clashes

I don't support Putin or the invasion at all, but it's not like he just invaded out of the blue. Ukraine also failed to allow Donetsk and Luhansk to hold independent referendums for secession - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements#Elections_in_...

The situation is nowhere near as black and white as just "Putin madman". A peaceful compromise around referendums and the right to self-determination would have been the best outcome, but now we should be neutral and put the stability of our own countries first.

Re:The euro and the dollar are a penny away from parity for ... by ben_w on Monday July 11, 2022 @12:22PM (#32058196)
Unfortunately there is evidence that Putin was deliberately stirring up trouble.

Even more unfortunately, at that level propaganda is beyond my ken to reliability disabuse, and I know full well that hawks want me to fear more than I need to.

Yet it is the locals he's claiming to want to liberate who are shooting his troops, the cities he's saying he wants to save that are being flattened by his missiles.

Reminds me of the stories of Afghanistan, where we blew up weddings and then were surprised the locals didn't like us.