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Re:Binance served crypto traders in Iran despite U.S. sanctions by PeterisP on Monday July 11, 2022 @07:59AM (#32054962)
They're free to ignore US sanction laws as long as they don't want to receive money from US customers and US dollars from anyone.
Re:Binance served crypto traders in Iran despite U.S. sanctions by rwmj on Monday July 11, 2022 @08:38AM (#32055353)
Or have any company officer travel to or through the US any time in the future.

I once interviewed for a company that ran gambling websites (legal in the UK) and it was explained to me that if I worked there I would never be able to travel to the US. I declined the job. Some time later one of their executives was on a plane which was diverted to a US airport and he was arrested and charged.

Re:Binance served crypto traders in Iran despite U.S. sanctions by akudha on Monday July 11, 2022 @09:01AM (#32055601)
Wow. I don't understand this - this plane was diverted to a US airport, just to arrest the executive? Was he a U.S citizen living in some other country? If not, was he arrested because the company had customers/users on U.S soil?

Also, what about the other passengers in the plane? Annoying a bunch of passengers just to arrest one guy for working for a gambling website seems excessive, no? Or was it a private plane?

Re:Binance served crypto traders in Iran despite U.S. sanctions by decremental on Monday July 11, 2022 @09:04AM (#32055623)
It sounds like the plane being diverted was incidental.
Re:Binance served crypto traders in Iran despite U.S. sanctions by closewith on Monday July 11, 2022 @09:31AM (#32055877)
Assuming that the GP's talking about David Carruthers, it was a layover rather than a diversion: https://www.ft.com/content/69eebb30-18df-11db-b02f-0000779e2...
Re:Binance served crypto traders in Iran despite U.S. sanctions by ghostDancer on Monday July 11, 2022 @09:28AM (#32055848)
In theory he probably would be in transit area, so outside of USA. We all know how good is USA respecting international treaties and human rights when it doesn't suit their economic interests.
Re:Binance served crypto traders in Iran despite U.S. sanctions by seanhunter on Monday July 11, 2022 @10:31AM (#32056673)
The idea that airports (or the transit areas of airports) are somehow extraterritorial and not part of the sovereign territory of the nation where they are located is a popularly-held belief which is entirely untrue. You'll notice that police of the host nation operate in these areas for example. For example, see https://english.elpais.com/elpais/2013/06/27/inenglish/13723... but there are hundreds of sources for this if you search online.
Re:Binance served crypto traders in Iran despite U.S. sanctions by zapdrive on Monday July 11, 2022 @09:38AM (#32055956)
US airports don't have a transit area. Anybody transiting through the US has to go through immigration/customs.
Re:Binance served crypto traders in Iran despite U.S. sanctions by londons_explore on Monday July 11, 2022 @10:53AM (#32056953)
Wait... so you need a USA visa just to fly a route that goes via the USA, even if you never leave the airport?

That seems... suboptimal.

All it takes is a corridor from arrivals to departures to allow people to leave again on a different plane out of the country.

Re:Binance served crypto traders in Iran despite U.S. sanctions by ciceryadam on Monday July 11, 2022 @11:15AM (#32057250)
Yup, plus you pick up your bags, go through customs and recheck your bags after landing at the first US airport. Same for Canada AFAIK.
Re:Binance served crypto traders in Iran despite U.S. sanctions by Scoundreller on Monday July 11, 2022 @11:31AM (#32057449)
Sometimes you don’t have to re-check your bags.

Some US airports and airlines are like that for some flights (e.g. international delta flight to Detroit and then onward to Canada). Finally US customs figured that there’s less to worry about if you just hold onto my bags instead of forcing me to pick them up.

Re:Binance served crypto traders in Iran despite U.S. sanctions by ciceryadam on Monday July 11, 2022 @11:43AM (#32057639)
Good to see some progress there!
Re:Binance served crypto traders in Iran despite U.S. sanctions by cesarb on Monday July 11, 2022 @11:12AM (#32057207)
> Wait... so you need a USA visa just to fly a route that goes via the USA, even if you never leave the airport?

Yes. There are some details at the following article: https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Avoiding_travel_through_the_U...

Re:Binance served crypto traders in Iran despite U.S. sanctions by gene91 on Monday July 11, 2022 @11:15AM (#32057259)
There’s no separate international departure area and domestic departure area in US airports. Therefore, it takes a lot more than a corridor.
Re:Binance served crypto traders in Iran despite U.S. sanctions by ghostDancer on Monday July 11, 2022 @01:56PM (#32059419)
Thanks , I did not know that. I thought that every international airport had one.
Re:Binance served crypto traders in Iran despite U.S. sanctions by causi on Monday July 11, 2022 @09:43AM (#32056020)
Transit areas are still subject to local laws. If I ran an online shop selling, say, firearms to Britons or Nazi flags to Germans I would not expect to pass through their airports unmolested.
Re:Binance served crypto traders in Iran despite U.S. sanctions by ghostDancer on Monday July 11, 2022 @02:57PM (#32060224)
If you're not going to USA/any other country and you don't have a VISA for that country But the airplane is forced to land that makes an involuntary illegal alien. The flight was forced to land, he knew he could not visit the USA
Re:Binance served crypto traders in Iran despite U.S. sanctions by toyg on Monday July 11, 2022 @09:03AM (#32055615)
Any names...? I'm always somewhat scared of the gambling sector (too many different laws across countries, too many entities based in dubious jurisdictions...), but I always expected a UK-based organization would be on the safe end of the spectrum. Unless for UK you mean Jersey / Guernsey / Isle of Man, which are at the sketchy end...
Re:Binance served crypto traders in Iran despite U.S. sanctions by rwmj on Monday July 11, 2022 @09:15AM (#32055720)
Pretty sure it was this guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Carruthers

(I mixed up the details in my hazy memory - I think my interview was in 2001, so over 20 years ago).

The Wikipedia page links to a different UK betting company / exec who was also arrested in the same manner: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Dicks

Edit: And same company, different executive: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Kaplan Company looks super-shady in hindsight, I'm glad I didn't take that job :)

Re:Binance served crypto traders in Iran despite U.S. sanctions by reaperducer on Monday July 11, 2022 @09:53AM (#32056145)
it was explained to me that if I worked there I would never be able to travel to the US

Sounds like they were just trying to make themselves sound like super-cool rebels, because there are plenty of very legal online gambling options in the United States.

It's not available nation-wide. You have to be physically located in a state that permits online gambling, and use a service that is aligned with a legal casino. But it's a billion-dollar legal industry in the United States.

Re:Binance served crypto traders in Iran despite U.S. sanctions by Fargoan on Monday July 11, 2022 @10:18AM (#32056494)
It wasn't always legal and they were likely knowingly breaking US law and just warning him.
Re:Binance served crypto traders in Iran despite U.S. sanctions by nly on Monday July 11, 2022 @09:24AM (#32055806)
Was the gambling website accepting US customers? Otherwise on what basis is a crime committed?
Re:Binance served crypto traders in Iran despite U.S. sanctions by rwmj on Monday July 11, 2022 @09:26AM (#32055826)
Yes they were flouting US gaming laws.
Re:Binance served crypto traders in Iran despite U.S. sanctions by lotsofpulp on Monday July 11, 2022 @09:37AM (#32055944)
Are these old laws that are no longer applicable? Because online gambling seems to be perfectly legal in the US based on the millions of sports betting (including fantasy) advertising slots I see when trying to watch a sports game.
Re:Binance served crypto traders in Iran despite U.S. sanctions by yieldcrv on Monday July 11, 2022 @10:33AM (#32056696)
The ban is on financial institutions sending money to and from online gambling sites

With an newer exception for intrastate gambling

And an even newer exception for “games of skill” (sports fantasy stuff simply winning challenges to prohibitions)

Many other kinds of gambling sites use a seperate company for payments or just find a friendly bank to break the law

Regardless, the US consumer has many many options and does not have to care

Re:Binance served crypto traders in Iran despite U.S. sanctions by Hamuko on Monday July 11, 2022 @09:40AM (#32055983)
Aren't fantasy football sites classified as "game of skill" (quotation marks very much needed) websites?
Re:Binance served crypto traders in Iran despite U.S. sanctions by lotsofpulp on Monday July 11, 2022 @09:56AM (#32056185)
That would be an interesting loophole.
Re:Binance served crypto traders in Iran despite U.S. sanctions by reaperducer on Monday July 11, 2022 @09:51AM (#32056116)
Yes they were flouting US gaming laws.

Which law, exactly? Because there are plenty of legal ways to gamble online.

You just have to use an app that works with a legal casino, like MGM, Caesars, or one of the many many competitors, and be physically in a state where it's allowed.

Re:Binance served crypto traders in Iran despite U.S. sanctions by InitialLastName on Monday July 11, 2022 @10:22AM (#32056545)
There are plenty of legal ways to gamble online now.

GP suggests it's been 20 years since their interview. Looking through [0] sports betting was illegal almost everywhere until 2018. Prior to that, it was legal in much of Europe, and there were indeed a number of companies who were looking the other way on (and indeed indirectly marketing to) Americans, in violation of US laws.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambling_in_the_United_States#...

Re:Binance served crypto traders in Iran despite U.S. sanctions by nrmitchi on Monday July 11, 2022 @10:09AM (#32056369)
This incident happened ~20 years ago. The state of “online gambling”, as well as loopholes/implementations, has likely changed in that time.

As well, just because there is one way where online gambling is legal, does not mean that all ways are legal. Ie, just because it’s doable, doesn’t mean that you can’t still be flouting the law.

Re:Binance served crypto traders in Iran despite U.S. sanctions by sdfhdhjdw3 on Monday July 11, 2022 @09:01AM (#32055599)
Would you link us the news report on this, please?
Re:Binance served crypto traders in Iran despite U.S. sanctions by Miner49er on Monday July 11, 2022 @09:17AM (#32055737)
Idk about the person OP is talking about, but it's definitely happened:

https://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/18/technology/18gamble.html

Re:Binance served crypto traders in Iran despite U.S. sanctions by rwmj on Monday July 11, 2022 @09:19AM (#32055760)
Yes that was the company. I wasn't interviewed by him, in fact I don't know if he would have been working there at that time. Looks like his plane wasn't diverted, but he made the mistake of stopping over on a flight from the UK to Costa Rica.
Re:Binance served crypto traders in Iran despite U.S. sanctions by olalonde on Monday July 11, 2022 @08:02AM (#32054990)
That's exactly what they are doing. They created Binance US as a separate entity due to this issue (among others).
Re:Binance served crypto traders in Iran despite U.S. sanctions by JumpCrisscross on Monday July 11, 2022 @08:06AM (#32055019)
> exactly what they are doing

Pretty sure the non-US Binance entity would like to be able to maintain dollar bank accounts, or let their executives and employees travel to America and allied territory. (Which is why they banned these users.)

Re:Binance served crypto traders in Iran despite U.S. sanctions by olalonde on Monday July 11, 2022 @08:10AM (#32055049)
I don't believe that's how it works. There are plenty of businesses that do business with both Iran and USA, without apparent issue. Xiaomi (https://www.xiaomiiran.ir/), Samsung (https://www.samsung.com/iran/) or LG (https://www.lg.com/ir) for example.
Re:Binance served crypto traders in Iran despite U.S. sanctions by JumpCrisscross on Monday July 11, 2022 @08:15AM (#32055111)
> don't believe that's how it works

It is.

> Xiaomi for example

Xiaomi was blacklisted [1]. Their CFO was arrested in Canada for fucking this up [EDIT: Nope!]. Xiaomi turned off their devices in Iran last year [2] in a bid to lift the restrictions.

> Samsung

There was a brief respite in sanctions during the nuclear deal. The pages you’re citing are from that era. Samsung withdrew from Iran [3]. Iran, for good measure, responded by banning them [4].

[1] https://www.cfo.com/accounting-tax/2021/01/xiaomi-and-cnoonc...

[2] https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202109/1234058.shtml

[3] https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Iran-tensions/Iran-sanctio...

[4] https://asiatimes.com/2021/11/iran-bans-goods-from-south-kor...

Re:Binance served crypto traders in Iran despite U.S. sanctions by ionspin on Monday July 11, 2022 @08:21AM (#32055174)
> Their CFO was arrested in Canada for fucking this up

If I recall correctly, CFO of Huawei was arrested in Canada, not Xiaomi.

Re:Binance served crypto traders in Iran despite U.S. sanctions by makomk on Monday July 11, 2022 @09:18AM (#32055751)
Yeah, and the thing that got Huawei in trouble was using a secret subsidiary to smuggle US-produced tech from US companies into Iran in violation of sanctions, not simply doing business with Iran themselves.
Re:Binance served crypto traders in Iran despite U.S. sanctions by rtpg on Monday July 11, 2022 @09:39AM (#32055964)
The way this works in general is you build silos around these kinds of things (similar things happen when companies need to work on military tech, they end up isolating things to avoid some liability transfers).

This is also beyond the general thing which is that you often have national-level subsidiaries that are only "sales partners" or the like.

I do think there's also some differences depending on the kind of goods sold. Binance existing and theoretically helping with circumvention of sanctions probably make it a beautiful target.

Re:Binance served crypto traders in Iran despite U.S. sanctions by dingleberry420 on Monday July 11, 2022 @08:19AM (#32055150)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtJJC0nWs9s is a pretty good explanation of how this works.
Re:Binance served crypto traders in Iran despite U.S. sanctions by Scoundreller on Monday July 11, 2022 @11:28AM (#32057416)
You’d also want to avoid any country that the US has an extradition treaty with.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extradition_case_of_Meng_Wan...

Re:Binance served crypto traders in Iran despite U.S. sanctions by seydor on Monday July 11, 2022 @09:12AM (#32055682)
I'm not holding my breath that the kind of businesses registered on the cayman islands will close down in ethical protest. More likely they ll lobby americans to look away