Re:How do dolphins choose their name?
by stuartaxelowen on Friday July 08, 2022 @08:30PM
(#32029979)
Incredible (but maybe unsurprising) that nature is maximizing information density and designing efficient codes (a’la information theory) depending on their noise environment!
Re:How do dolphins choose their name?
by ehhhhhhhhh on Friday July 08, 2022 @08:32PM
(#32029998)
Dolphins are interesting. Researchers tried to get someone living with one in a waist high pool all day to teach it language humans could understand. Funding started running out, so the researcher started giving it handjobs and LSD. No luck. Source:
Re:How do dolphins choose their name?
by dTal on Friday July 08, 2022 @09:13PM
(#32030251)
You misrepresent the scenario to the point of fabrication; while each event you describe did individually (sort of) happen, the narrative is all scrambled. And your "source" is just a link to another article, which 404s.
Re:How do dolphins choose their name?
by hackernewds on Saturday July 09, 2022 @04:06AM
(#32032975)
Fascinating information to supplement. However the Wikipedia doesn't produce any citations either, so tough to accept human edits as truth. additionally, the Wikipedia article actually doesn't contradict what ehhhhhh commented.
There is still some confusion on whether the Indian court opined that dolphins should have the rights to non-human personhood or the Indian courts granted such rights. Either way its a welcome move.
Re:How do dolphins choose their name?
by tgv on Saturday July 09, 2022 @07:07AM
(#32033879)
Go tell the lions they're not exceptional. I'm sure they'll switch to tofu.
The argument isn't convincing. It relies on a tired rethorical trick: invent some syndrome, claim it is the basis for something you don't like, then taint the syndrome. It doesn't convince. And in this case, the outcome will be negative: once everyone fully realizes we're just normal animals, why not behave like them? Meat's back on the menu.
Re:How do dolphins choose their name?
by pawsforthought on Saturday July 09, 2022 @07:55AM
(#32034182)
Except, industrial agriculture and fisheries are nothing like subsistence predation.
I see no problem with hunter-gatherers’ predation of wildlife, provided they act in ecological balance with their environment (and they do tend to, out of self-preservation).
That’s not the world the vast majority of us live in though. We kill on the order of 1 trillion animals every year. We’re devastating Earth’s biosphere for the sake of an unnecessary dietary choice.
Re:How do dolphins choose their name?
by eganist on Saturday July 09, 2022 @07:42AM
(#32034094)
> Yet another nail in the coffin of human exceptionalism. Consider not what you are eating, but who.
This is an interesting take. If we refactor meat out of our diets out of empathy, wouldn't that imply human exceptionalism considering non-human carnivores and omnivores haven't been observed doing the same?
Re:How do dolphins choose their name?
by pawsforthought on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @07:24AM
(#32068300)
I think the answer lies in your question. We have not observed such behavior (conscious dietary preferences), but that says nothing of capability.
Opting out of meat is only really possible for us because of farming. Other species lack the physical capabilities to farm as we do. Nor can they communicate to us the depth of their cognitive capabilities.
Rejecting human exceptionalism is not the same as saying we are indistinguishable from non-human animals (which would be absurd to argue), rather that our distinctions do not make us inherently more worthy.
Re:How do dolphins choose their name?
by barrkel on Saturday July 09, 2022 @08:01AM
(#32034223)
It is not particularly convincing in the last part, the most relevant part: our own selfish interests in prioritizing people related to us over those not related, close to us over those far from us, and so on. It does a lot of handwaving around environmental interconnectedness but it doesn't add up to much of an argument if you don't fully buy the whole ecosystem thing, and if you do buy that, we should be paying more attention to bees than farm animals.
Re:How do dolphins choose their name?
by pawsforthought on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @07:30AM
(#32068338)
Indeed we should be paying attention to bees.
Wild pollinators are being assaulted by pesticides and by honey bees outcompeting them. This matters because honey bees do not pollinate all the plants we care about.
Whole regions of China have managed to exterminate their pollinator species, such that fruit trees must be pollinated by hand.
Re:How do dolphins choose their name?
by olivierestsage on Saturday July 09, 2022 @08:03AM
(#32034236)
The concept that we should abstain from all animal meat is the very definition of human exceptionalism, since it amounts to saying we have transcended our animal natures to such an extent that we've moved past the instincts we share in common with non-humans.
Re:How do dolphins choose their name?
by pawsforthought on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @07:32AM
(#32068347)
Rejecting human exceptionalism is not the same as saying we are indistinguishable from non-human animals (which would be absurd to argue), rather that our distinguishing features do not make us inherently more worthy.
Dolphins are excellent whistle mimics if they want to be, so urine might be more resistant to cetacean identity theft.
while most humans are given names by the parental unit. dolphins are a step ahead and will thank us for all the fish one day.
https://boingboing.net/2013/06/18/dolphins-on-acid-and-other...
Wikipedia link, for the curious: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Howe_Lovatt
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/06/ho...
https://radiolab.org/episodes/hello-podmash
There is still some confusion on whether the Indian court opined that dolphins should have the rights to non-human personhood or the Indian courts granted such rights. Either way its a welcome move.
To those who would downvote, I encourage you to read the following:
https://aeon.co/essays/human-exceptionalism-is-a-danger-to-a...
The argument isn't convincing. It relies on a tired rethorical trick: invent some syndrome, claim it is the basis for something you don't like, then taint the syndrome. It doesn't convince. And in this case, the outcome will be negative: once everyone fully realizes we're just normal animals, why not behave like them? Meat's back on the menu.
I see no problem with hunter-gatherers’ predation of wildlife, provided they act in ecological balance with their environment (and they do tend to, out of self-preservation).
That’s not the world the vast majority of us live in though. We kill on the order of 1 trillion animals every year. We’re devastating Earth’s biosphere for the sake of an unnecessary dietary choice.
We’ll reap what we sow, sooner or later.
Lions hunt and eat pretty, they also regularly kill cubs when taking over a pride. Does that make infanticide acceptable?
This argument is at least as silly as the parent's.
This is an interesting take. If we refactor meat out of our diets out of empathy, wouldn't that imply human exceptionalism considering non-human carnivores and omnivores haven't been observed doing the same?
Opting out of meat is only really possible for us because of farming. Other species lack the physical capabilities to farm as we do. Nor can they communicate to us the depth of their cognitive capabilities.
Rejecting human exceptionalism is not the same as saying we are indistinguishable from non-human animals (which would be absurd to argue), rather that our distinctions do not make us inherently more worthy.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/04/210405113606.h...
Wild pollinators are being assaulted by pesticides and by honey bees outcompeting them. This matters because honey bees do not pollinate all the plants we care about.
Whole regions of China have managed to exterminate their pollinator species, such that fruit trees must be pollinated by hand.
I'd say this is call by value not call by reference, or call by name.
That the call is matrilinially informed was interesting as was urine as a determinant.