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Re:Nuclear turn green as EU parliament approves new taxonomy by Veen on Thursday July 07, 2022 @06:20AM (#32012103)
I'm puzzled about why nuclear is deemed less satisfactory than dependence on Putin's Russia for the energy requirements of the world's 4th biggest economy.
Re:Nuclear turn green as EU parliament approves new taxonomy by blub on Thursday July 07, 2022 @06:56AM (#32012397)
Dependence on the Soviet Union and later Russia worked for 50 years.

This partnership, which was being undermined by the US from the beginning, is attributed to establishing a basis for cooperation between the Soviet Union and Western Europe. Considering that the Soviets pulled out peacefully of Eastern Germany, that worked pretty great.

Re:Nuclear turn green as EU parliament approves new taxonomy by agapon on Thursday July 07, 2022 @07:21AM (#32012575)
This is incredibly short-sighted. Soviets pulling out of Eastern Germany, the collapse of the GDR, the Warsaw Pact, the USSR has very little to do with the energy imports. One might even argue that the USSR would collapse economically even earlier if not for all the currency it got from oil and gas sales.
Re:Nuclear turn green as EU parliament approves new taxonomy by blub on Thursday July 07, 2022 @07:27AM (#32012622)
Having a relationship based on mutually beneficial economic exchanges is an important reason why one would treat their economic partner nicely. It’s perhaps not the reason, but it is a reason.

Given how peacefully it collapsed and the huge potential for mayhem, I’d stay away from altering the timeline.

Re:Nuclear turn green as EU parliament approves new taxonomy by bluGill on Thursday July 07, 2022 @09:19AM (#32013715)
We have no idea what the alternate histories would look like. We can guess - yours is a reasonable guess - but it is all guesses. I can come up with reasons thing would things went far worse, and if you think a little you should be able to as well - they may be somewhat unlikely, but that is all the more we can say.

What we do know is where we are today: Russia is not playing nice with the world despite our attempts to have beneficial economic exchanges. Would the not play nice with USSR scenarios be worse - we have no real idea.

Re:Nuclear turn green as EU parliament approves new taxonomy by greedo on Thursday July 07, 2022 @02:39PM (#32017701)
Yes, please give the Soviets due credit for how well they treated the Eastern Bloc countries. The Czechs and Slovaks, along with the Hungarians might like a word with you, to point out a few extreme examples. Same with the rest of the Bloc countries that had to cope with decades of repression.
Re:Nuclear turn green as EU parliament approves new taxonomy by tut-urut-utut on Thursday July 07, 2022 @07:42AM (#32012720)
> dependence on Putin's Russia

First, it's Russia, not Putin's Russia. It's derogatory to frame discussion like that. Should we also start putting "Biden's USA" and "Macron's France"? Just writing this way, and suddenly both USA and France appear like some fourth world banana republics.

Second, both Russia and Soviet Union before were the most reliable energy partner. They didn't fail their obligations a single time.

Reduction in Russian gas should be blamed on NATO sanctions that prevented a timely maintenance of North Stream 1 by confiscation of the gas turbine, and the refusal to start using North Stream 2 although it is ready to deliver gas tomorrow, if Germany decides so.

Re:Nuclear turn green as EU parliament approves new taxonomy by mcv on Thursday July 07, 2022 @08:15AM (#32013016)
Putin's power in Russia is a lot more absolute than Biden's in the US or Macron's in France. And especially with his war against Ukraine and general hatred of democracy, Putin is relevant. The EU would have had less problems buying gas from Yeltsin's Russia. In fact, that's how we got into this situation; Russia was supposed to be on the road to becoming a normal, open democracy. And then Putin changed course.
Re:Nuclear turn green as EU parliament approves new taxonomy by tut-urut-utut on Thursday July 07, 2022 @09:28AM (#32013810)
Demonizing an enemy by personalisation and reduction to one evil dictator is a known propaganda / manipulation technique.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demonizing_the_enemy#Personifi...

This has always been a standard operation model for the US:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_operations_(Unit...

So yes, Putin's Russia is used intentionally to introduce the same feeling as Hitler's Germany. That's the way how Biden's USA works, supported by Ursula von der Layens EU, Stoltenberg's NATO and their minions.

Re:Nuclear turn green as EU parliament approves new taxonomy by dTal on Thursday July 07, 2022 @10:19AM (#32014444)
You might have a point if any of the other people you mention had maintained unchallenged political power for 2 decades by the expedient of murdering their political rivals.
Re:Nuclear turn green as EU parliament approves new taxonomy by tut-urut-utut on Friday July 08, 2022 @04:14AM (#32024234)
I am just pointing out that if you use these terms, it frames the whole country in a negative sense.

Would Bush's USA, Clinton's USA, Nixon's USA, Obama's USA or POTUS X' USA work better? Because each one of the US presidents except Trump and Biden (give him some more time) is directly or indirectly responsible for more killing around the world than Putin would ever be. Hundreds of thousands (in case of some presidents even millions) people have been murdered on their direct command. Even if "Putin's Russia" is really responsible for everything that US / NATO propaganda accuses them, they still have a long way to go to reach this levels of atrocities and destruction.

Re:Nuclear turn green as EU parliament approves new taxonomy by mcv on Saturday July 09, 2022 @06:16PM (#32039797)
It emphasises the negative effect Putin has on the country. And he does. He's plunging the country and the world into an unnecessary war just to feed his pride, and he does so in a clear break from his predecessor. Putin's Russia is significantly different from Yeltsin's Russia that it's worth pointing out the difference, especially since that difference is all him.

And while you could certainly argue that for example Bush plunged his country into an unnecessary war to feed his pride, you're arguing that he's not that much of a break from his predecessors. And the American people as a whole definitely carry more of that responsibility. That's still a reason to call out Putin specifically, instead of the country as a whole.

Re:Nuclear turn green as EU parliament approves new taxonomy by Workaccount2 on Thursday July 07, 2022 @10:12AM (#32014343)
But Putin does have dictator level control...

It's Putin's Russia because Russia does what Putin wants.

Biden wants a lot of things for America but both the legislature and the courts are stopping that. So in that sense it is America's America.

Re:Nuclear turn green as EU parliament approves new taxonomy by mcv on Thursday July 07, 2022 @10:43AM (#32014738)
It's done mostly out of compassion with the average Russians who have no say in the matter. I think it's important to remind people that it's specifically Putin who wants this war, and that most Russians don't. Just like we try not to blame the average German for Hitler's mad aggression.

As many people have pointed out, comparisons to Hitler's conquests at the start of WW2 are not unjustified; Putin is using much of the same rhetoric that Hitler used. His state media is actively discussing the need for genocide. Those "same feelings as Hitler's Germany" are because the facts are far too similar.

Re:Nuclear turn green as EU parliament approves new taxonomy by google234123 on Thursday July 07, 2022 @01:32PM (#32016898)
> Putin who wants this war, and that most Russians don't.

I don't think we have enough data to say this confidently. Putin enjoys a very broad base of support

Re:Nuclear turn green as EU parliament approves new taxonomy by mcv on Thursday July 07, 2022 @01:39PM (#32016988)
Because he controls the media. There have also been very persistent protests against the war. Russians in a position to speak freely often criticise it. That's not true for the majority of Russians, however.
Re:Nuclear turn green as EU parliament approves new taxonomy by dragonwriter on Thursday July 07, 2022 @01:37PM (#32016955)
People, including elites in Putin’s inner circle, perceived as insufficiently loyal to Putin have experienced a rash of widely reported “murder-suicides” of their entire families, and others who have avoided that fate have experienced, other very public, severe adverse consequences.

This, along with Russia’s notoriously pervasive secret police and domestic surveillance may have something to do why even “anonymous” polling of Russia finds fairly small numbers of people willing to say they don't support the regime wholeheartedly, independent of actual sentiment.

Re:Nuclear turn green as EU parliament approves new taxonomy by throw_a_grenade on Thursday July 07, 2022 @10:47AM (#32014788)
> Second, both Russia and Soviet Union before were the most reliable energy partner. They didn't fail their obligations a single time.

Sorry, this is bollocks. For more than 30 years Russia is using energy supplies as a weapon against pretty much all the eastern and central Europe.

Re:Nuclear turn green as EU parliament approves new taxonomy by tut-urut-utut on Thursday July 07, 2022 @11:06AM (#32015032)
Can you give one single example when it was Russia's guilt for not delivering gas?

The only time when we had issue with gas it was some ten years ago when Ukraine stopped the transit hoping to blackmail both Russia and the EU to get a better deal for themselves. Ukraine was a failed state then that couldn't pay for gas they used.

Re:Nuclear turn green as EU parliament approves new taxonomy by throw_a_grenade on Thursday July 07, 2022 @12:05PM (#32015759)
First well published incident was cutting off Estonia in 1993, right after it regained independence.

Note Russia always does something to shift the blame, usually starts "dispute" over payments. It's done because media need to report ”balanced" view, so just by reading general news it's not apparent tha this is really blackmail. Stockholm tribunal regularly disproves Russian version, it just takes time, which is what Russia is after: you can't survive winter without heating, and the final verdict won't arrive in time. So until LNG terminals and pipelines to Norway sprang around the Baltic Sea, coupled with Third Package, Eastern Europeans mostly had to yield to this blackmail.

> The only time when we had issue with gas

ISTM you live west of Oder. No one in Eastern Europe would say this.

> it was some ten years ago when Ukraine stopped the transit hoping to blackmail both Russia and the EU to get a better deal for themselves. Ukraine was a failed state then that couldn't pay for gas they used.

This is false, Ukraine wasn't "failed state". What failed was an attempt to rig an election.

Re:Nuclear turn green as EU parliament approves new taxonomy by tut-urut-utut on Thursday July 07, 2022 @04:49PM (#32019192)
It is a failed state. Or call it a puppet state. After the Maidan coup it became pretty fast s fascist autocracy. And it was corrupt since the gain of independence. How else would you call it? A pinnacle of democracy certainly not.
Re:Nuclear turn green as EU parliament approves new taxonomy by dragonwriter on Thursday July 07, 2022 @04:54PM (#32019263)
> After the Maidan coup it became pretty fast s fascist autocracy

I think you are confusing Ukraine after Maidan with Russia under Putin.

(Well, no, I really think you are just parroting laughably dumb Russian propaganda, but it would be more accurate with those substitutions.)