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Re:A fake job offer took down Axie Infinity by abirch on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @01:02PM (#32003776)
I still can't believe that they opened the PDF on the company computer. I always use my home computer and the poor hacker would get bored of seeing all of my Raspberry Pi projects that I haven't done.
Re:A fake job offer took down Axie Infinity by the_af on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @08:46PM (#32008718)
I open all sorts of PDFs, all the time, regardless of which computer I'm using.

Is PDF as an attack vector such a widespread threat? I never payed much attention to them, assuming it's a document format that is relatively harmless even if it can include javascript.

This is an honest question, by the way.

Re:A fake job offer took down Axie Infinity by kibibyte on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @10:10PM (#32009208)
https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=PDF+documen...

PDFs are "harmless" on their own, but they are user-generated documents that conform to a complex specification. Viewing them requires software that parses them. These parsers are often written in unsafe low level languages.

The (in)security of unsafe parsers reading user-generated input is a tale as old as time itself.

Re:A fake job offer took down Axie Infinity by planede on Thursday July 07, 2022 @05:34AM (#32011746)
Most people view pdfs now in web browsers built-in viewers. Especially if the job offer comes from a linkedin message, I would imagine most people would default to the browser viewer.

While browsers are sure not without security vulnerabilities, I sure trust the PDF viewer within to be way more sandboxed than most standalone desktop PDF viewer applications.

If the vulnerability (which I assume was RCE) was in a web browser, then it's a major bug.

Re:A fake job offer took down Axie Infinity by kibibyte on Friday July 08, 2022 @03:25AM (#32023865)
As I mentioned in another comment (and I think others have mentioned this as well), browser PDF viewers implement a subset of PDF features, and notably they won't support things like forms (I think?) or signatures. So I can imagine that attacker tricked the user into opening the PDF with separate software by saying something along the lines of "you need Adobe Reader to sign this document" (and I don't think DocuSign is ubiquitous enough that users will second guess that).
Re:A fake job offer took down Axie Infinity by planede on Friday July 08, 2022 @04:09AM (#32024191)
I think both Firefox and Chrome support forms now, although I know that there are other interactive features that they don't support. But yeah, I can see the attacker convincing the victim to use Adobe regardless.
Re:A fake job offer took down Axie Infinity by the_af on Thursday July 07, 2022 @10:13AM (#32014357)
> PDFs are "harmless" on their own, but they are user-generated documents that conform to a complex specification. Viewing them requires software that parses them. These parsers are often written in unsafe low level languages.

Yes, I understand this, keep in mind I'm a software engineer.

Let me re-phrase. It's understood that, in general, document formats are more or less harmless unless they execute macros/code, and even then, this code must be able to exploit the platform's vulnerabilities to be able to do harm.

What is different about PDF than, say, JPEGs? I don't know of anyone who would hesitate to open an image file on their work computer, yet they are also complex formats requiring readers (viewers) which are often written in unsafe low-level languages. Yet I have never ever head of someone recommending "be careful before opening a JPEG (or PNG, or whatever) file".

I'm assuming we are not talking about ye olde "PDF.exe" or "JPEG.exe" trick here, but actual vulnerabilities in document files (not just renamed executables).

Re:A fake job offer took down Axie Infinity by kibibyte on Friday July 08, 2022 @03:22AM (#32023852)
I understand what you're getting at now; I had thought you were asking the "more obvious" question. I'm unwilling to claim to be a subject matter expert, but I have some thoughts on this based on intuition as someone who's also a software engineer and has some security background.

Both JPEG (or any other ubiquitous image format) and PDFs are nontrivial formats. And both have their fair share of CVEs (the list of JPEG vulnerabilities is also pretty long, based on that CVE database).

Something that sticks out to me is that JPEG (and most other image formats) is basically a header followed by a large blob of compressed image data, whereas PDF is a mixed-media format combining images and other multimedia, fonts, and a PostScript. And of course, we know that PDFs have all sorts of other crazy fancy features like forms and embedded JavaScript and digital signatures. Based on these facts alone, PDF features is a superset of image formats, and certainly by quite a wide margin. And more features means much bigger attack surface.

There's also another practical consideration of how users generally interact with these formats. Users interact with images primarily through browsers (or Electron-based software), which are sandboxed and have very well-funded security teams behind them. User-uploaded images to image hosts are often re-encoded (and sanitized as a side effect). Notable exceptions I can think of are loading images from a camera (generally a trusted source; and certainly there must be plenty of vulnerabilities in RAW parsers, but people almost never share RAWs) and iMessage (...which is a thing). It's very unusual for a user to be forced the view the image outside of a browser.

PDFs are a different situation: while browsers have well-sandboxed PDF viewers these days, they intentionally implement a subset of PDF features (I think forms is a big one left out, and signatures). You can imagine how easy it is to convince a user that need to download the PDF to disk and open it with Adobe Reader so that they can digitally sign a job offer. I'm aware that DocuSign exists, but I don't think it's ubiquitous enough that every user will wonder "hmm why am I being asked to sign with Adobe Reader instead of using DocuSign".

I hope that better answers your question.

Re:A fake job offer took down Axie Infinity by saagarjha on Thursday July 07, 2022 @06:55AM (#32012383)
This describes webpages just as well.
Re:A fake job offer took down Axie Infinity by kuboble on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @01:39PM (#32004247)
It might be hard to believe that the particular person in a particular company did that, but given a lot of attempts, dedication and lucky / unlucky circumstances eventually somewhere someone will trust a malicious person and will get socially engineered into opening a pdf on a working computer.
Re:A fake job offer took down Axie Infinity by godot on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @01:46PM (#32004358)
Also wonder if the PDF exploit works for only local/native PDF readers (e.g. Adobe Readers) or also web-based. If someone occasionally checks their personal email from a work laptop, chances are they'd only use the Gmail preview to open the PDF. It seems like most engineers wouldn't get all the way to downloading a job offer PDF to their work laptop and opening it up there.
Re:A fake job offer took down Axie Infinity by CrispinS on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @01:40PM (#32004273)
I can't believe a software developer is using an operating system/pdf viewer that isn't patched for security vulnerabilities as major as an RCE.

Unless this was a zero day, but I would have assumed the article would mention that fact ..

Re:A fake job offer took down Axie Infinity by pcthrowaway on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @07:28PM (#32008176)
I really wish we had details here too, but someone made a good point:

"Hey, you need a PDF viewer with scripts enabled for the digital signing.. can you install Adobe XXX?" would be a good line to get the mark to use a less-than-secure PDF viewer.

But also, since it was the North Korea hacking group, I'm not ruling out a 0-day... hopefully more details will come at some point.

Re:A fake job offer took down Axie Infinity by da39a3ee on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @01:59PM (#32004537)
Huh? I've used my company laptops for my personal life for the last 15 years. Why would I want to carry two laptops everywhere? I travel. I barely remember what a personal laptop is.
Re:A fake job offer took down Axie Infinity by logifail on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @03:14PM (#32005463)
> I've used my company laptops for my personal life for the last 15 years.

Counterpoint: I've been completely and utterly allergic to opening anything personal from any company system for longer than that.

Re:A fake job offer took down Axie Infinity by LASR on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @10:22PM (#32009286)
Same here.

I get MDM profile updates from IT on my work machine. One time they auto-installed a cloud backup service and sent out a company-wide email after they already did it. Something like: “Now nobody has to deal with lost data. You’re welcome!”

Huge backlash from employees on that move. But I get both perspectives. These are work machines, and a mundane accident with the equipment shouldn’t incur significant losses to the business.

But apart from the potential loss of personal privacy, it feels wrong. Especially so, when you’re looking for other jobs.

Re:A fake job offer took down Axie Infinity by RajT88 on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @02:28PM (#32004885)
I travel with a HP Spectre x360 for personal stuff. It is barely a weight or bulk addition compared to my work machine.

When I was on the road all the time I also had separate phones to ensure I never got stuck with a dead phone.

Re:A fake job offer took down Axie Infinity by jazzyjackson on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @02:14PM (#32004709)
lol

do you at least dual boot?

have a separate user account?

I guess its fine as long as your computer doesn't have the credentials to the company slush fund.

Friend of mine I traveled with carried 3 macbooks with her: school issued, work issued, and personal. They had different software licenses tied to the machine, whadyagonnado?

Re:A fake job offer took down Axie Infinity by acheron on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @05:09PM (#32006860)
I hope this is satire.
Re:A fake job offer took down Axie Infinity by da39a3ee on Thursday July 07, 2022 @12:29PM (#32016065)
No, it's not satire! I use a separate chrome profile for my personal life, and I keep my personal files in google drive. I'm not sure what the fuss is about?
Re:A fake job offer took down Axie Infinity by epolanski on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @07:55PM (#32008385)
Me too, but I have to say there is literally nothing sensible I have access to, only git repos without secrets and useless code.
Re:A fake job offer took down Axie Infinity by kornhole on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @04:28PM (#32006390)
I think you are joking to bait us. At least use a VM running a VPN within it. It won't protect you from screen captures or keyloggers your employer put on your machine, but it will segregate files and network activity.
Re:A fake job offer took down Axie Infinity by the_af on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @08:51PM (#32008744)
I regularly use my work laptop for unrelated purposes. Working from home has encouraged this behavior.

I know they monitor some things because they are upfront about it: Chrome says it's company managed, and there is an antivirus and some VPN software that must be always one.

But why do I care? They don't crack down on us, and know everyone plays games or visits non-work-related sites, watches YouTube, or even do homework on these laptops.

I'm not going to work for the competition using the company's laptop, so why worry?

Re:A fake job offer took down Axie Infinity by da39a3ee on Thursday July 07, 2022 @12:31PM (#32016106)
Nope, not joking. I use a separate chrome profile for my personal life, and I keep my personal files in google drive. Even if your employer is monitoring you (which I doubt), what are you doing that you think will be so interesting to them?
Re:A fake job offer took down Axie Infinity by DJHenk on Thursday July 07, 2022 @02:10AM (#32010498)
It is not that weird. For several jobs now I got a laptop from work and it was agreed upon beforehand that I could install Linux on it. I trust a machine that I installed myself.
Re:A fake job offer took down Axie Infinity by pcthrowaway on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @07:31PM (#32008186)
Believe it or not, not everyone gets a work-issued laptop (although this might be more common with hourly contractors)
Re:A fake job offer took down Axie Infinity by cfn on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @02:32PM (#32004949)
I suppose that sending it during business hours and, who knows, maybe the final offer would be in the PDF and the poor guy couldn't wait to open it. The rest is history.
Re:A fake job offer took down Axie Infinity by turtlebits on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @03:39PM (#32005785)
If you're looking for work, you have to interview during the day, which you're probably in office (things are very different now). I know I'm guilty of having my personal emailed signed into my work computer (albeit with a separate browser). I've also done virtual interviews in the office meeting/phone room.
Re:A fake job offer took down Axie Infinity by bornfreddy on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @04:27PM (#32006382)
You've done interviews in the office of your (then) current employer??? Gutsy. I wouldn't dream of using employer's equipment, time or space while negotiating for a new employment.