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Re:Why I am not going to buy a computer (1987) [pdf] by jimhi on Monday June 20, 2022 @06:26PM (#31816970)
Holy cow - this guy still does not own a computer.

From: https://www.newyorker.com/culture/the-new-yorker-interview/g...

"Berry, who is now eighty-four, does not own a computer or a cell phone, and his landline is not connected to an answering machine. We corresponded by mail for a year"

Re:Why I am not going to buy a computer (1987) [pdf] by _carbyau_ on Monday June 20, 2022 @08:01PM (#31817934)
My mother doesn't have a computer or mobile phone of any kind. Landline phone, TV and snailmail is her contact with the world from home.

I did give her an old laptop but when the link to "her email" webpage was moved by the ISP she got the error message "It looks like your page has been moved." Innocuous enough error message right?

But this caused her to freak out as clearly "someone" was watching and knew what "her" page was. Ergo "someone" was watching her on the internet. So she turned off the laptop and never opened it again.

On the one hand, she has mental health issues including paranoia. On the other hand, she wasn't wrong!

Re:Why I am not going to buy a computer (1987) [pdf] by bitwize on Monday June 20, 2022 @09:22PM (#31818607)
Proper UI/UX design is tremendously difficult, which is why software engineers should never attempt it in a user-facing product. When it comes to on-screen text, you must choose your words very carefully, because someone out there will read them the wrong way.

Example: in the 90s, Windows, arguably one of the easiest commercial operating systems and certainly the most familiar, used to routinely frighten its users by falsely accusing them of crimes.

"This program has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down."

If you're wondering why software UX these days is a colorful, foam-padded Barney-esque hellscape of smiling Alegria people and error messages of the form "Oopsie, we made a boo-boo :(", this is why.

Re:Why I am not going to buy a computer (1987) [pdf] by Wowfunhappy on Monday June 20, 2022 @10:15PM (#31819013)
> Example: in the 90s, Windows, arguably one of the easiest commercial operating systems and certainly the most familiar, used to routinely frighten its users by falsely accusing them of crimes.

> "This program has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down."

At first, I laughed.

Then I realized, I think I remember seeing this error message when I was six years old, and being freaked out.

Re:Why I am not going to buy a computer (1987) [pdf] by jrumbut on Monday June 20, 2022 @10:53PM (#31819300)
Imagine how lifelong law abiding citizens felt!

I still don't understand how that message escaped being fixed. It wasn't rare. I would estimate a regular computer user would see it monthly? Maybe more?

Re:Why I am not going to buy a computer (1987) [pdf] by Wowfunhappy on Monday June 20, 2022 @11:15PM (#31819437)
I mean, I can totally see how it would happen if you didn't have a UX team, and your developers didn't have any exposure to the concept. The message makes sense to a programmer.

And, they couldn't easily fix anything post-release, right?

(This also makes the original Macintosh interface all the more impressive in my eyes. System 1 is a masterpiece.)

Re:Why I am not going to buy a computer (1987) [pdf] by badsectoracula on Tuesday June 21, 2022 @04:34AM (#31821679)
> I still don't understand how that message escaped being fixed. It wasn't rare.

Might have to do with why nowadays Windows 10 blue screens show a sideways ":(" smiley instead of a face despite being in graphics mode.

Back when i first encountered smileys (and that was at the cover of an "internet magazine" - i was already into computers and programming for years at the time and even used the internet and IRC) i didn't understood what they were, i thought they were some sort of code like the :// or @ in addresses.

My guess is that whoever added that sideways smiley is as blind to how it looks to people who don't know about them as whoever who wrote "illegal" was to people back in Win95 times.

Re:Why I am not going to buy a computer (1987) [pdf] by j_mo on Tuesday June 21, 2022 @05:41AM (#31822093)
> Imagine how lifelong law abiding citizens felt!

I like to think this implies that they had committed countless crimes by the age of 6

Re:Why I am not going to buy a computer (1987) [pdf] by q-big on Tuesday June 21, 2022 @06:35AM (#31822357)
> used to routinely frighten its users by falsely accusing them of crimes.

> "This program has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down."

It does not accuse the user of a crime, but the program (which, by the laws (rules) that the OS enforces on the running programs, is true).

Re:Why I am not going to buy a computer (1987) [pdf] by arvinsim on Monday June 20, 2022 @10:15PM (#31819005)
Thanks for showing your view. It does help in making me be more empathetic to UX/UI designers.
Re:Why I am not going to buy a computer (1987) [pdf] by nwah1 on Monday June 20, 2022 @08:15PM (#31818043)
As they say, just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.
Re:Why I am not going to buy a computer (1987) [pdf] by wolpoli on Monday June 20, 2022 @10:20PM (#31819044)
> But this caused her to freak out as clearly "someone" was watching and knew what "her" page was. Ergo "someone" was watching her on the internet.

Even through her reasoning was wrong, she still managed to reach the right conclusion.

Re:Why I am not going to buy a computer (1987) [pdf] by 2OEH8eoCRo0 on Tuesday June 21, 2022 @07:12AM (#31822575)
Define "someone". A person? No.
Re:Why I am not going to buy a computer (1987) [pdf] by forgotmypw17 on Monday June 20, 2022 @08:22PM (#31818108)
>I did give her an old laptop but when the link to "her email" webpage was moved by the ISP she got the error message "It looks like your page has been moved." Innocuous enough error message right?

>But this caused her to freak out as clearly "someone" was watching and knew what "her" page was. Ergo "someone" was watching her on the internet. So she turned off the laptop and never opened it again.

>On the one hand, she has mental health issues including paranoia. On the other hand, she wasn't wrong!

I would call this an accessibility issue, and a failure by the ISP to maintain access for someone who has trouble adjusting to changes in the user interface.

Re:Why I am not going to buy a computer (1987) [pdf] by _carbyau_ on Monday June 20, 2022 @08:49PM (#31818337)
While true, there is:

"You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time"

For simply changing their webmail page, most of us would adjust pretty quick. If I had been quick enough I could've simply updated her link and she never would have known. But when mental health comes to paranoia, doing things behind her back is a sure way to get offside. I have zero issues with what happened, it is life.

Re:Why I am not going to buy a computer (1987) [pdf] by forgotmypw17 on Monday June 20, 2022 @11:13PM (#31819422)
Would you say that building wheelchair ramps is also a waste of time, because you can't please everyone all the time, and they're only a small percentage of the population?
Re:Why I am not going to buy a computer (1987) [pdf] by _carbyau_ on Tuesday June 21, 2022 @12:08AM (#31819745)
You are arguing shades of grey.

1. You only have so much effort to spend. 2. You won't be able to please everyone with it. IE result.

Sure, for any large enough building (significant effort anyway to spend!) expecting a reasonable chunk of the population through the door a wheelchair ramp(decent chunk of populace affected) should be du jour. Hell, it is a wheelchair ramp not rocket science, I'd be happy to see them in a home building code for anywhere 2 or 3 steps are used. Little extra effort over the alternative (stairs) and get a result.

Alternately, I love my mum but it is unreasonable to expect the world to bend to meet the sheer levels of disconnection-from-reality that mental health paranoia can go to. We can't treat everyone like they are Truman from the Truman Show.

People have to be able to cope with change. When they can't, it is sad. But the world will keep changing anyway.

Re:Why I am not going to buy a computer (1987) [pdf] by forgotmypw17 on Tuesday June 21, 2022 @12:12PM (#31825627)
"The world" may keep changing, but "my applications" will continue to bend over backwards to accommodate every scenario I can imagine.
Re:Why I am not going to buy a computer (1987) [pdf] by _carbyau_ on Tuesday June 21, 2022 @08:18PM (#31830616)
I'm glad people like you exist and want to make the world a better place for everyone you possibly can.

I suspect you will continue to find ways your applications are not received in the context you hoped. But is also an opportunity to do better which it seems you might enjoy.

I also think you won't be financially competitive in the larger world. And while I'd love a world where this doesn't matter, money makes the world go around until humanity as a whole can figure out how to do better. So I don't think many will follow your path.

I honestly wish you the best to make it all work. For my own part, I will continue to try and leave contexts I am involved in better than I found them.

Re:Why I am not going to buy a computer (1987) [pdf] by kurthr on Monday June 20, 2022 @07:14PM (#31817465)
Well, at least only the truly old school Nigerian snail mail scams will get to him!

Seriously, if you have parents going into their 70s and 80s you need to really start limiting exposure to scams or the ability to send them money. Otherwise, you won't know until it's too late, their bank account is empty, and their CC are maxed out on cash advances. Also, immediately contact the IRS and Social Security, because they've probably redirected returns and payments to their accounts.

Re:Why I am not going to buy a computer (1987) [pdf] by spennant on Monday June 20, 2022 @09:00PM (#31818429)
My dad is in his 80’s and has all the tech. (computer, iPad, iPhone, etc…) Thing is, he doesn’t believe anything (true or false) from his devices. He just thinks that everything he reads is from someone trying to sell him something and/or part him with his money.

I’m not sure if he’s wrong.

Re:Why I am not going to buy a computer (1987) [pdf] by bee_rider on Monday June 20, 2022 @11:33PM (#31819549)
There are two types of offers that are made to me: Scams, and bad deals. If a good or service was worthwhile, it wouldn't need to try to get my attention.
Re:Why I am not going to buy a computer (1987) [pdf] by q-big on Tuesday June 21, 2022 @06:38AM (#31822373)
> If a good or service was worthwhile, it wouldn't need to try to get my attention.

This might hold under the assumption that you invest nearly all of your free time informing yourself about possibly interesting offers. But this is clearly not the case.

Re:Why I am not going to buy a computer (1987) [pdf] by fbanon on Tuesday June 21, 2022 @07:26AM (#31822661)
He is right.

This is something that should be taught in elementary school.

Re:Why I am not going to buy a computer (1987) [pdf] by _carbyau_ on Tuesday June 21, 2022 @12:25AM (#31819861)
That "what are they getting from me" attitude is a filter I view the world in.

I didn't realise it until I went to my local library. I had a mental glitch until I realised I could drop my suspicions and relax. Was pleasant to simply be there.

Re:Why I am not going to buy a computer (1987) [pdf] by Tade0 on Tuesday June 21, 2022 @06:06AM (#31822211)
My maternal grandfather is 95 and his attitude is similar. Meanwhile my father gets into one bad deal after another.

That being said the former is, for lack of a better word, a minimalist, while the latter seized an opportunity to move out from a back then communist state and make enough money to buy property with cash.

I grew up utterly confused on how to conduct myself.

Re:Why I am not going to buy a computer (1987) [pdf] by jazzyjackson on Monday June 20, 2022 @10:25PM (#31819078)
I love his writing, it makes total sense that he would see no value in the virtual world

Patch Adams is another character who has got everything he's wanted out of life without ever needing to touch a computer, at the age of 77 he corresponds by handwritten mail as he always has