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Re:Australia’s secret propaganda unit by hunglee2 on Monday June 20, 2022 @12:51AM (#31806409)
UK have always been No1 when it comes to propaganda.

CIA learned the value of narrative formation from the BBC

Re:Australia’s secret propaganda unit by wincy on Monday June 20, 2022 @12:55AM (#31806423)
Why would the British elite want free healthcare for everyone? Of the welfare dole? Or any of that stuff? Who is making these decisions that they’re feeding to the masses? These all seem like things you wouldn’t want if you were say, an ultra rich British noble or even the royalty.

This is a genuine not rhetorical question. I don’t know much about British politics but the statement that some shady elites are controlling the British through the BBC seems counterintuitive to me.

Re:Australia’s secret propaganda unit by tonyg on Monday June 20, 2022 @01:07AM (#31806483)
They don't and never did. All that stuff was fought for tooth and nail by Labour over the course of the 20th century despite the elites.

The BBC thing is much more subtle.

Re:Australia’s secret propaganda unit by ggm on Monday June 20, 2022 @01:26AM (#31806606)
Primarily the victory election at the end of WWII where Churchill seemed to assume he'd be back in, in a landslide and he ignored the work being done by Labour memebers amongst the troops. There was a pretty solid army education corps which was (surprise suprise) dominated by left/labour leaning academics, and they put a lot of "why are we fighting" "homes for heroes" "make britain better for you" messages out. Labour got in on a landslide, Clement Atlee was elected to replace Churchill. The Beveridge report [0] was (partially) implemented. This was the birth of the welfare state.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beveridge_Report

Re:Australia’s secret propaganda unit by LaundroMat on Monday June 20, 2022 @02:38AM (#31807018)
Choice quote from that entry:

> "Beveridge was opposed to "means-tested" benefits. His proposal was for a flat rate universal contribution in exchange for a flat rate universal benefit. Means-testing was intended to play a tiny part because it created high marginal tax rates for the poor."

Plus ça change...

Re:Australia’s secret propaganda unit by jollybean on Monday June 20, 2022 @02:13AM (#31806867)
Controlling some narratives does not mean controlling them all.

The BBC is not a clandestine operation, but does sometimes work with the government on special issues particularly for national security and/or in times of crisis.

Even knowing all of this, it's still a pretty good news source actually.

It's better than the Canadian CBC or US PBS/NPR in terms of 'objectivity' though those three entities do have some good qualities.

BBC is nothing like Russia Today for example, or even CNN/Fox or major braodcast networks, all of which have different levels of relationship with government.

Re:Australia’s secret propaganda unit by csomar on Monday June 20, 2022 @01:12AM (#31806522)
elite # rich. The elite could be the bureaucrats, in which case, a free healthcare is basically a government owned clinic and corruption will run rampant on that where the bureaucrats will collect. Same thing for welfare (collect taxes from business, pass some of it to the masses, collect some of it as government officials).
Re:Australia’s secret propaganda unit by smackeyacky on Monday June 20, 2022 @01:55AM (#31806764)
Except that this didn't happen with the NHS or with Australia's public health care systems. The worst and most rampant corruption in healthcare is the US health insurance industry. The US could fix that, but the entire country no longer has any basis for reliable discourse on a subject like healthcare, which is by design.
Re:Australia’s secret propaganda unit by hunglee2 on Monday June 20, 2022 @01:03AM (#31806466)
plenty of great things about Britain, including the BBC. The fact that is a fantastic propaganda project is to the British credit, it was a key part of imperial maintenance. For the people who fought against empire though (independence movements in Malaysia, Kenya etc), it was and remains, the equivalent of RT
Re:Australia’s secret propaganda unit by BLKNSLVR on Monday June 20, 2022 @01:10AM (#31806505)
Do not completely shade the hope of those upon whose shoulders you stand, for you do not want to find your feet in direct contact with the ground, lest you find another's feet on your shoulders.

Balancing hope, fear, and desperation requires permanent effort.

Re:Australia’s secret propaganda unit by Aerroon on Monday June 20, 2022 @02:10AM (#31806843)
>Why would the British elite want free healthcare for everyone? Of the welfare dole? Or any of that stuff? Who is making these decisions that they’re feeding to the masses?

Why not? If it doesn't cost them much then why wouldn't they want this for the masses? They're still people and most people don't like it when others needlessly suffer.

Re:Australia’s secret propaganda unit by wsc981 on Monday June 20, 2022 @01:09AM (#31806501)
Providing free healthcare and handouts make people dependant on the government. And anyways, healthcare is never free, it's paid for one way or the other. Civilians either pay directly to private companies or indirectly through taxation by the government. The very wealthy can use tax vehicles to prevent paying high taxes anyway, so they're very unlikely to be harmed.

In order to increase income from taxes, governments can usually most easily tax the middle class (provided middle class isn't too small of course).

And I state that free healthcare and handouts make people more dependant on the government, since governments can always provide some reason for decreasing the handouts or healthcare provided for various reasons. For example, perhaps at some point a government might decide to withheld free healthcare for civilians that refuse vaccination. Civilians at the bottom of the food chain would then feel more pressured in taking some vaccination in order to keep access to free healthcare of government handouts.

People dependant on the government will be more obedient civilians, so its likely many governments will want to move in this direction. Central Bank Digital Currencies will also give governments more control of people, so it will be the direction we'll be moving towards in the coming years.

Re:Australia’s secret propaganda unit by Skgqie1 on Monday June 20, 2022 @01:59AM (#31806790)
People are dependent on government anyway. Your life is very much in the hands of whichever entity wields the most power. Sometimes this power is direct and immediate (like a tyrannical despot). Other times it's less direct but no less powerful (democracies controlled by corporations).

On using healthcare as a tool for coercion - whilst it's a debatably bad outcome, it's generally still better than healthcare locked behind money (the latter resulting a continuous, persistent denial of healthcare to some portion of the population - the former being a once off, or possibly intermittent, denial of healthcare).

Of course healthcare isn't free. The worst case, of course, is when healthcare is both paid for via taxation and then subsequent billing by non-government entities.

Re:Australia’s secret propaganda unit by XorNot on Monday June 20, 2022 @02:52AM (#31807085)
Imagine defending the US healthcare system and thinking you're not doing exactly what the wealthy elite want you too.
Re:Australia’s secret propaganda unit by derevaunseraun on Monday June 20, 2022 @02:21AM (#31806926)
> And I state that free healthcare and handouts make people more dependant on the government, since governments can always provide some reason for decreasing the handouts or healthcare provided for various reasons. For example, perhaps at some point a government might decide to withheld free healthcare for civilians that refuse vaccination. Civilians at the bottom of the food chain would then feel more pressured in taking some vaccination in order to keep access to free healthcare of government handouts.

This sounds right, but the same issue of refusing services is just as valid (if not more valid) for private businesses. It would be a harder argument with respect to public healthcare because the first amendment is binding with respect to the government and not private companies. Said private companies and insurance companies can (and likely do) charge more because of things like vaccination.

The problem is not a matter of private vs public healthcare but of punishing violation of the first amendment and enforcing legislation that protects religious minorities from discrimination, especially on insurance companies.

The private sector is more unregulated than the public sector with regard to things like religious freedom. Corporate HR departments can get away with more coercion and subterfuge than the government, hence the current situation in the US where employers control freedom of speech and other things more thoroughly than the government ever could. It's far easier to exert power through the corporations than it is through the government

Re:Australia’s secret propaganda unit by hunglee2 on Monday June 20, 2022 @04:51AM (#31807896)
it is far more cost effective for everyone to mandatorily pay into a collective budget which the state can spend with healthcare providers.
Re:Australia’s secret propaganda unit by smackeyacky on Monday June 20, 2022 @01:52AM (#31806758)
That is a very American view of public health care.

The world view is that public health care is actually a massive subsidy for corporations, who obviously benefit from a healthy (and educated) pool of workers.

That public health care is fought against in the US is more about the hideously large and inefficient health care juggernaut in the US that lobbies against the publics interest in their own favour. Forget the smokescreen that the US calls "socialism", the word has no effective meaning there other than an epithet.

Re:Australia’s secret propaganda unit by doctor_eval on Monday June 20, 2022 @02:01AM (#31806798)
I would just add that public health care also adds legitimacy to government; a tangible reason for it to exist. Legitimacy is something that appears to be on the wane in the US.
Re:Australia’s secret propaganda unit by Skgqie1 on Monday June 20, 2022 @02:10AM (#31806842)
The big "wtf" for me was learning that the US has, by far, the highest public healthcare expenditure of any country in the world.

Looking at this data, it seems like it pays almost 50% more than the next highest country (over 9k per capita, vs just under 6k).

Re:Australia’s secret propaganda unit by dragonsky67 on Monday June 20, 2022 @07:00AM (#31808791)
And some of the poorest health outcomes in the western world. How can you spend so much money, and still have people who can't afford basic care?
Re:Australia’s secret propaganda unit by MomoXenosaga on Monday June 20, 2022 @05:39AM (#31808206)
You have to remember that after WW2 Europe was destroyed.

This is how socialist politicians came in. Before the war socialists were the enemy, after the war they were the ones who had to fix the mess and stop communism.

Re:Australia’s secret propaganda unit by artificialLimbs on Monday June 20, 2022 @01:22AM (#31806583)
>> Why would the British elite want free healthcare for everyone?

So that they will have control of the healthcare system. Or lack thereof. "You missed crossing the T on page 1027-56, section 3 when filling out your submission to acquire cancer treatment form, and so we are rejecting your request at this time. Please fill out the form again and wait 6 weeks before re-submitting."

The more power politicians/elite have over the populace, the easier it is to control the populace. Right up until the riots.

Re:Australia’s secret propaganda unit by theplumber on Monday June 20, 2022 @01:46AM (#31806728)
Wtf are you talking about? Control the people with free healthcare?
Re:Australia’s secret propaganda unit by boston_clone on Monday June 20, 2022 @01:47AM (#31806738)
Do you have much experience with the NHS, hyperbolizing here, or something else?
Re:Australia’s secret propaganda unit by barrysteve on Monday June 20, 2022 @01:23AM (#31806586)
Apparently UK propaganda teams dropped the ball on colonization. There's a lot of people who see the spread of the old British Empire™ as a bad thing and express pain at the thought of it.
Re:Australia’s secret propaganda unit by brutusborn on Monday June 20, 2022 @06:12AM (#31808451)
Yeah it's almost sacrilege to discuss any upsides of colonization. It's also possible that as well as the UK propagandists dropping the ball, UK adversaries are doing really well on keeping colonialism a current subject in media / academia
Re:Australia’s secret propaganda unit by fortuna86 on Monday June 20, 2022 @01:15AM (#31806540)
I see the same people over and over on HN posting unsourced conspiracies.
Re:Australia’s secret propaganda unit by ggm on Monday June 20, 2022 @01:31AM (#31806630)
This isn't it however: the BBC/ABC work destabilising the Sukharno communist government and their complicity in the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of leftists in the subsequent Coup is remarkably well documented.

Remember Menzies in Australia tried to ban the communist party by legislation and lost a referendum in 1951 on this issue (it passed in 3? states I think, but didn't obtain the supermajority necessary)

Re:Australia’s secret propaganda unit by Skgqie1 on Monday June 20, 2022 @02:21AM (#31806920)
Interestingly, he's also generally viewed as one of the greatest prime ministers, and did insanely well by most metrics. He served both the longest period of any prime minister in Australia (18 years), and has the longest consecutive time as prime minister too (16 years iirc).

He was also a central figure for one of the two major parties (Liberal - basically our closest equivalent to the American Republican party).

It would be fascinating to hear his opinion on where the Liberal party is today. That said, I think both major parties are generally shit (Broadly speaking, one works in the best interests of corporations, and the other just doesn't do much of anything)

Re:Australia’s secret propaganda unit by ggm on Monday June 20, 2022 @04:41AM (#31807825)
Australia being hung on the balance of 49/51 I'd say about half the voters would agree with you, but a hell of a lot wouldn't.
Re:Australia’s secret propaganda unit by smackeyacky on Monday June 20, 2022 @08:21AM (#31809458)
By who? Good old pig iron bob, sold metal to the Japanese that came back as bullets fired during ww2, painted everyone as communists, ran a deeply corrupted domestic spy state and conscripted young men to fight that pointless war in vietnam? Continued the repression of women and homosexuals and kowtowed to the catholic and anglican churches who were buggering orphans and stolen aboriginals on an industrial scale.

That guy? Calling him great is controversial to say the least.

Re:Australia’s secret propaganda unit by fortuna86 on Tuesday June 21, 2022 @12:38PM (#31825957)
During the cold war, everyone did everything they could to counter the other side. It wasn't a good dynamic for anyone, but it is the distant past.

Please point out a BBC/ABC influence operation that is government backed in the past 3 decades.