The comparison with the US is disingenuous - it is not illegal to open a French language school in the United States, it is in Ukraine.

Previously, Russian was allowed to be taught in schools in Ukraine. It was then banned from being taught in schools even in regions where the majority of people speak Russian.

Furthermore, it is illegal in Ukraine to have a Russian language radio station.

I encourage you to read up on the actual policy differences.

Many of your statements are outright false.

Evidence beats a bare denial. (Of course, the original claim didn't have any evidence, either...)

"Yes it is" "No it isn't" is a really uninteresting conversation. Somebody supply some evidence, not just claims.

I don’t have the time to google citable sources to refute false claims without any evidence in the first place. My sources are my own multiple very recent visits to Ukraine(last visit earlier this year), and my extended Ukrainian family and friends who were all taught either only Russian(older and grew up in Russian occupied territories or Eastern Ukraine) and at times spoke Ukrainian under threat of death. Or were taught both Russian and Ukrainian(younger, recent grads from the Kyiv region)

I've provided some media reports in another comment. Evidence for everything I've said is also very available on Google.

The two articles you linked to show that Ukraine set a minimum 30% quota for songs to be played in Ukrainian, and that people should be greeted in Ukrainian by default and switch languages if asked. Neither of which backs up your outrageous claims.

For radio: https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-37908828

For schools, businesses and public services: https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210401-new-law-stoke...

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-parliament-langua... does not mention banning Russian-language schools nor, in fact, mentions banning teaching it in addition to Ukrainian in the same school.

There's an education law that says that starting in 2023, all state schools must be taught primarily in Ukranian at and above the fifth grade. While imperfect, it does allow teaching in several minority languages, especially in primary school. Russian is not allowed at state schools above primary school as a teaching language for other subjects, but it can be taught as an elective subject and other organizations are free to teach it. The ECHR implications of this are mentioned specifically by the Venice Commission.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-language/criticis...

https://web.archive.org/web/20190516190140/https://www.presi...

https://www.venice.coe.int/webforms/documents/default.aspx?p...

From section 5 of the Venice document.:

"69. Thus, it appears that members of the Bulgarian, Greek, German, Polish, Romanian and Hungarian minorities, in addition to being able to study their language as a subject, may also study one or more other subjects through the medium of their language at the secondary education level. However, members of national minorities who do not speak an official EU language — Byelorussians, Gagauzes, Jews, and, significantly, Russians — will only be able to study at the secondary school level their language as a subject. Thus, a hierarchy is created at the secondary school level, with indigenous peoples potentially treated more favourably than national minorities which speak an official language of the EU, and national minorities which speak an official language of the EU treated more favourably than other national minorities."

There is a high quota for state-language content on radio but other languages are allowed a percentage. From section 7 of the Venice document.:

"95. With regard to the use of languages in broadcasting, Article 24 refers to the Law on Television and Radio Broadcasting. At the same time, a transitional provision of the Law (Section IX, point 7.24) amends Article 10 of the latter Law, tightening the language quota requirements, by increasing the proportion of the Ukrainian language content for national and regional broadcasters from 75 to 90 per cent and, for the local broadcasters, from 60 to 80 per cent. This amendment will come into force five years after the Law’s entry into force (i.e. on 16 July 2024)."

So is the situation perfect for everyone? No. Is the EU (and Hungary and some others) pushing Ukraine to compromise? Yes. Have they promised to work on compromises? Also yes.

There's no need to go beyond the actual, documented issues and spread falsehoods and propaganda.

TL;DR: I invite you to read up on the issue.

> There's no need to go beyond the actual, documented issues and spread falsehoods and propaganda.

I never did - please don't accuse me of doing so.

1. On the school claim, it is now illegal to have exclusively Russian preschool or elementary school. Your own point concedes that it is illegal to teach other subjects in Russia - students will only be able to study their language as a "subject." That is not a "Russian-language school."

It is also illegal for private schools to teach in only Russian.

2. On Radio: As I said, it is now illegal to have an exclusively Russian language radio and for news subject, it is illegal for the radio to be even Russian majority.

This lines up with both of my claims.

You said the Russian language was outright banned.

Show me that law.

The result of the invasion does seem to be a huge increase in anti-Russian language and anti-Russian "ethnicity" feeling among Ukrainian-speakers though. Which was pretty minimal before. Which is pretty terrible. I'm not saying it was a cause or justification of the invasion. I'm saying things are getting worse. As they usually do as a result of war. It's horrible.

> A 2012 law, called the law "On the principles of the State language policy" gave the status of regional language to Russian and other minority languages. It allowed the use of minority languages in courts, schools and other government institutions in areas of Ukraine where the national minorities exceed 10% of the population .... > The bill was adopted amid fistfights in the Ukrainian Parliament building on 3 July 2012, and the opposition said that the procedure of adopting the law was not respected.

Doesn't seem all that minimal to me.

Russian-speaking citizens don't really want to study Russian as an "elective subject". They want to study in Russian. You have confirmed that it was getting no longer possible.

That's like forcing all Canadians to be only taught in French and subsequently losing Vancouver to the US.

So you have just confirmed everything that propaganda was talking about and were quite efficient at that.

The thread started by whimsicalism stating that Russian was banned in Ukraine, and I replied that it had a status similar to French or German in the US.

Nobody has ever banned a language by allowing printing in it, allowing grades up to 4 to be taught in it, allowing secondary schools to teach it as a subject, and allowing private groups to continue teaching it as a primary language.

The correct comparison is Spanish - I wonder what's the status of education in Spanish in thr US.

But more correct case in point is Belgium. If Belgium tried to force education to be in Dutch exclusively, there would very soon be no Belgium.

> allowing grades up to 4 to be taught in it,

"Banning grades after 4 from being taught in Russian" - I did it for you

All 30 years of Ukraine's independence they were seeing new limitations to the use of Russian, every year. Some of these are listed in comments.