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Re:Musk SEC Filing by mlindner on Monday June 06, 2022 @09:55AM (#31640518)
How visible Elon is is a result of reporting and the clickbait (often with false information) headlines used in that reporting.
Re:Musk SEC Filing by Uehreka on Monday June 06, 2022 @10:19AM (#31640832)
I’m generally weary of “clickbait” being used as an excuse for various things on HN, but this takes the cake: Elon is visible because he loves—nay, craves—attention.

Sure, the media reports on him a lot, but it’s because he gives them endless stuff to report on. He’s made himself the face of every company he owns, and gives ostentatious presentations of products that are often totally bananas (like the CyberTruck). He posts 2011-era memes on Twitter then randomly decides to talk about buying companies or taking companies private while tweeting questions about business strategy at their CEOs. He dated a pop star and they gave their child a name that sounds like a galaxy cluster.

For better or for worse, Elon’s intense visibility is his own doing, and the press is just along for the ride.

Re:Musk SEC Filing by theossuary on Monday June 06, 2022 @10:08AM (#31640694)
He's visible by choice. His bonuses in his Tesla contract are tied to the company's stock price. He realized he could boost the stock by being highly visible, and doing what he does. This lead to multi-billion single day payouts when Musk got people on the internet to buy his inflated stock. Now that he's made himself so visible, it isn't going to change unless he decides to make himself less visible. Which I doubt.
Re:Musk SEC Filing by mlindner on Monday June 06, 2022 @10:26AM (#31640931)
His "bonuses" are his only income first off so they don't really classify as that. And no, they're not tied to company's stock price. They're tied to revenue (or EBITDA) AND stock price. Just pushing the stock price up doesn't get him any more stock options.

He's visible because of his neurosis. He doesn't do it to make money. He's never admitted to it, but it's been hinted at in the past that he also has some kind of bipolar condition as well.

Re:Musk SEC Filing by rchaud on Monday June 06, 2022 @10:07AM (#31640682)
His visibility is magnified by his own Twitter presence posting style, similar to a certain other personality who leveraged Twitter well.

There's a reason so many refer to him on a first-name basis that they don't with other tech CEOs, and it's not because of media coverage. It's because of his own cult of personality that makes his fans think he's one of them and overlook the countless shortfalls in his visions for the future.

Re:Musk SEC Filing by seanicus on Monday June 06, 2022 @12:51PM (#31642824)
True. Look no further than Tim Apple.
Re:Musk SEC Filing by mlindner on Monday June 06, 2022 @10:14AM (#31640767)
I call him with a first name basis because he's probably the person I know best outside my very best friends and my own family. I've been following and listening to him for a decade now and I know his personality well.

Twitter is where he plays around, but his thoughtful personality comes through face to face in talks and interviews. That's what shows how Elon got to where he is. No other CEO talks with the clarity like he does (ironically in a stuttering fashion).

It's not because of a "cult". It's because of his insight into things I had never put that much thought into. He's broken a lot of my own assumptions about how things are supposed to work. He's literally changed how I think as an engineer.

Re:Musk SEC Filing by synu on Monday June 06, 2022 @10:26AM (#31640924)
Be careful, parasocial relationships like that can lead to unhealthy behaviour. People sometimes go off the deep end and start arguing with everyone on the internet about the target of their desire, and lose all sense of perspective. You see them taking on all comers in threads like these, and it’s a bit disturbing when you notice it’s just the same username over and over.

Not saying it’s what you’re doing, but your comment reminded me of people like that.

Re:Musk SEC Filing by rchaud on Monday June 06, 2022 @10:26AM (#31640932)
So after a decade of "knowing him well" via his Twitter and interviews, what do you think of his recent behavior? Still the clearest communicator?
Re:Musk SEC Filing by mlindner on Monday June 06, 2022 @10:54AM (#31641263)
I think he's been stressed out from a number of factors recently from SpaceX not having been able to make any progress recently because it's been hung up on permitting, from the lack of any consistent other person in his life (he recently did an interview where he said that he finds it difficult to balance the time required between his love of work and love of other people), and from the recent attacks that have been coming at him from the left (Biden of note completely snubbing Tesla and apparently valuing union membership over fixing global warming). All of this together along with him seeing the encroachment of censorship on social media made him want to jump to fixing things by buying Twitter which I now see him as regretting with him not realizing how big the problems Twitter faces are.

And yes in his interviews of late he's been a quite clear communicator. Here's a couple within the last month or so that are quite good:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRvf00NooN8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnxzrX9tNoc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WX_mgnAFA0

Re:Musk SEC Filing by gamblor956 on Monday June 06, 2022 @12:00PM (#31642158)
union membership over fixing global warming

Every year, Elon makes over 100 flights using private aircraft, which offsets the emissions savings of over 100k EVs. Most of these flights are for pleasure, not business.

"Fixing" global warming is just a marketing ploy for Musk, since he seems to be doing an incredible job of personally trying to make it worse. He doesn't get to freeride on the labor of others on this.

Re:Musk SEC Filing by henrikschroder on Monday June 06, 2022 @05:55PM (#31646873)
> I call him with a first name basis because he's probably the person I know best outside my very best friends and my own family.

Seek help. I mean it. This is not healthy. You do not know him, you are infatuated with aspects of his public persona.

Re:Musk SEC Filing by trs8080 on Monday June 06, 2022 @10:32AM (#31640996)
> I call him with a first name basis because he's probably the person I know best outside my very best friends and my own family. I've been following and listening to him for a decade now and I know his personality well.

You deny that your admiration for Elon Musk is because of a "cult," but this sounds very cult-like. Have you considered that Elon Musk is not the only person who can make you a better engineer?

Re:Musk SEC Filing by mlindner on Monday June 06, 2022 @10:48AM (#31641188)
Of course he's not the only person who can do that. I was never implying that.
Re:Musk SEC Filing by synu on Monday June 06, 2022 @10:03AM (#31640617)
It’s strange how there are people who treat it like it’s their job to hate or defend him. You see the same names replying on every thread making the same points, even across multiple posts.
Re:Musk SEC Filing by boringg on Monday June 06, 2022 @10:08AM (#31640696)
Agree. He's a lightning road of a character so I think people are attracted to his accomplishments and ability to get execution or alternatively despise his changing social positions.

He's not emblematic of US problems but theres a trajectory that lines up with some of the political discord timeline wise and his change in perspectives going from center left to center right.

Re:Musk SEC Filing by qzx_pierri on Monday June 06, 2022 @10:06AM (#31640665)
They're simply posting (what they perceive to be) the popular opinion. They're just grifting the comment section for upvotes.
Re:Musk SEC Filing by synu on Monday June 06, 2022 @10:07AM (#31640674)
But to what end?
Re:Musk SEC Filing by WJW on Monday June 06, 2022 @12:29PM (#31642527)
For some, upvotes are their own reward.
Re:Musk SEC Filing by scarface74 on Monday June 06, 2022 @10:04AM (#31640635)
Was there anything false about him saying he would buy Twitter and then backed out - like most people assumed he would?
Re:Musk SEC Filing by mlindner on Monday June 06, 2022 @10:07AM (#31640679)
He doesn't want to back out. He wants accurate information. Your post already assumes the incorrect information at hand.

A great example of how far gone the misinformation campaign already is.

Re:Musk SEC Filing by ceejayoz on Monday June 06, 2022 @10:16AM (#31640791)
The 5% number has been there for ages. https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/05/13/twitter...

> The number is hardly new: Twitter has been giving the same estimate for years, even though critics and experts have said they believe the company is lowballing the actual number of such accounts.

If Musk wanted the deal contingent on this very specific data point, he should've said so before he committed to the $1B cancellation fee and made it part of that agreement.

Re:Musk SEC Filing by rchaud on Monday June 06, 2022 @10:20AM (#31640847)
If you don't kick the tires before agreeing to buy, well, that's on the buyer. DYOR

> "Musk tweeted on Tuesday that Twitter Chief Executive Parag Agrawal has refused to show proof for his company's estimate and that the deal cannot move forward until he does. Twitter's proxy statement shows that in the run-up to the deal Musk made no effort to get information about the issue. "Mr. Musk did not ask to enter into a confidentiality agreement or seek from Twitter any non-public info regarding Twitter," Twitter said in its proxy statement."

https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/twitter-committed-elon...

Re:Musk SEC Filing by ra7 on Monday June 06, 2022 @10:18AM (#31640817)
He wants accurate information after he explicitly waived his right to do due diligence when he was trying to force Twitter’s board to accept his price? He didn’t think of it before?
Re:Musk SEC Filing by davidbarker on Monday June 06, 2022 @10:16AM (#31640789)
I believe he waived his right to due diligence, which is why the deal went through so quickly.

If he now regrets that, it’s his own fault.

Re:Musk SEC Filing by d23 on Monday June 06, 2022 @09:59AM (#31640566)
Hogwash. People made similar arguments about Trump (i.e. that the liberal media was taking his words out of context). I could see both men's juvenile tweets and judge for myself.
Re:Musk SEC Filing by mlindner on Monday June 06, 2022 @10:06AM (#31640657)
Comparing him to Trump is pretty ridiculous. One is an inept politician while the other is possibly one of the greatest people to have ever lived.
Re:Musk SEC Filing by d23 on Monday June 06, 2022 @10:10AM (#31640718)
Ah. You're trolling. Got it.
Re:Musk SEC Filing by davidbarker on Monday June 06, 2022 @10:09AM (#31640712)
I’d be interested to hear your arguments about why you believe Musk is “possibly one of the greatest people to have ever lived“.
Re:Musk SEC Filing by mlindner on Monday June 06, 2022 @10:20AM (#31640845)
Because he's almost single-handedly driven a fix to global warming and he will also vaunt our civilization on to other celestial bodies through the use of cheap space travel.
Re:Musk SEC Filing by Bubble_Pop_22 on Monday June 06, 2022 @10:44AM (#31641136)
Dude, TeamViewer and Zoom are doing more for global warming and it's not even a stated goal of the company.

Stop looking at the showmanship and look at the crude numbers.

Re:Musk SEC Filing by boringg on Monday June 06, 2022 @11:33AM (#31641782)
Pretty sure those technologies haven't stopped the flow of air travel recently. They just made business more efficient.

You honestly can't try and equate this with Elon almost single handedly bring the EV car market to the planet.

It either shows you are being disingenuous at best or ignorant in the subject matter at worse.

Re:Musk SEC Filing by dekhn on Monday June 06, 2022 @06:50PM (#31647457)
yes, combination of video and covid caused my company (in bay area) to stop flying large numbers of employees to the mothership (in basel). People used to go for a 2-day mini-conference (1 day to fly in, 2 on the ground, 1 to fly back) without even adjusting to local time zone. Entire business sections of planes reserved. Not anymore. Company is in top tier of profit margins.
Re:Musk SEC Filing by mlindner on Monday June 06, 2022 @11:04AM (#31641416)
Work from home is a temporary thing that's going to be largely ending soon so their long term effect will be minimal. Face to face interaction is important for human communication.
Re:Musk SEC Filing by Bubble_Pop_22 on Monday June 06, 2022 @11:26AM (#31641688)
How are Teslas (which I remind you accounted for less than 1% of total vehicles sold globally in FY21) propelling a zero carbon face-to-face interaction?
Re:Musk SEC Filing by dubswithus on Monday June 06, 2022 @07:07PM (#31647593)
It's not ending. Employees love work from home and talented workers in tech have real power.
Re:Musk SEC Filing by ModernMech on Tuesday June 07, 2022 @10:16AM (#31654646)
> Work from home is a temporary thing that's going to be largely ending soon

Thanks in part to Elon Musk.

Re:Musk SEC Filing by davidbarker on Monday June 06, 2022 @10:50AM (#31641208)
I would like to see a source for your first claim, and I think the only source for the second claim is Musk himself (and I don’t trust much of what he says).
Re:Musk SEC Filing by dekhn on Monday June 06, 2022 @10:29AM (#31640964)
you're confusing his scifi future state with the present. He made a successful electric vehicle company (those vehicles still consume electricity, often made from burning gas or goal) and a successful space company (with better, but not "cheap" transport to space). Both are great things, but they don't qualify him as the greatest person in history. You're just hero-worshipping and you picked a pretty bad hero.
Re:Musk SEC Filing by ceejayoz on Monday June 06, 2022 @10:25AM (#31640923)
> a fix to global warming

We fixed global warming?

Re:Musk SEC Filing by mlindner on Monday June 06, 2022 @11:03AM (#31641395)
We're headed that way, as long as we don't somehow plateau on our improvement for some reason.
Re:Musk SEC Filing by ceejayoz on Monday June 06, 2022 @11:11AM (#31641508)
That's a serious [citation needed] claim; even if everyone switched to electric vehicles tomorrow, that only accounts for 10-20% of global emissions, and we've gotta cut a lot more than that.
Re:Musk SEC Filing by mlindner on Monday June 06, 2022 @12:06PM (#31642229)
Reducing the cost of batteries is one of the important things along that way. That allows many other things to be electrified.
Re:Musk SEC Filing by triceratops on Monday June 06, 2022 @10:38AM (#31641075)
Nice try Elon.
Re:Musk SEC Filing by rvnx on Monday June 06, 2022 @09:59AM (#31640563)
He is visible because haters make him visible. Then haters complain he is too visible and there is infinite loop.
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Re:Musk SEC Filing by rvnx on Monday June 06, 2022 @10:18AM (#31640814)
Well look around in this exact page, how many haters are speaking vs people who don't care.
Re:Musk SEC Filing by synu on Monday June 06, 2022 @10:35AM (#31641031)
To be honest, haters and defenders seem to be pretty evenly matched up at the moment. Maybe even slight edge to the defenders if not by number of accounts then by zeal to make lots of replies.
Re:Musk SEC Filing by davidbarker on Monday June 06, 2022 @10:52AM (#31641232)
To call those people critical of Musk (with most providing what they perceive as valid reasons) “haters” feels cheap.