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Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by AviationAtom on Saturday June 04, 2022 @12:12PM (#31622078)
Crypto has boom and bust cycles. It will be back again, and mania will happen again.
Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by paulryanrogers on Saturday June 04, 2022 @12:15PM (#31622117)
Past booms are no guarantee of future booms. Fundamentals of crypto don't appear sound to me. So I wouldn't put much stock in them.
Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by peyton on Saturday June 04, 2022 @12:18PM (#31622169)
General sentiment is too many people made too much money not to give it another go.
Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by unicornmama on Saturday June 04, 2022 @03:37PM (#31624267)
Pyramids don't resolve upside down.
Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by AviationAtom on Saturday June 04, 2022 @12:59PM (#31622685)
The next will be the same as this one, s*tcoins will lose most value, while Bitcoin and Ethereum will retain a reasonable amount of value. The problem is suckers think the altcoins are going to be their ticket to riches. Those that get in early do indeed gain, but those that are late to the scheme end up holding the bag.
Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by mlyle on Saturday June 04, 2022 @12:17PM (#31622154)
Yah. I think distributed ledgers are here to stay, as are some tokens of stored value. But I don't think the insane bidding up of many tokens will ever happen again.
Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by paraph1n on Saturday June 04, 2022 @12:47PM (#31622541)
> I think distributed ledgers are here to stay

What exactly makes you think that? As far as I can tell, it's still unclear if distributed ledgers are really effective tools for much of anything. What real problems have they solved?

Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by mlyle on Saturday June 04, 2022 @01:16PM (#31622879)
Non-repudiation is an important problem. Some things we can rely upon trusted third parties, but all kinds of things we rely on imperfect systems with notaries and trusted third parties can be more effectively solved with ledgers.

A whole lot of the interesting applications are non-monetary-- proving that a record was produced and made available before a certain time and has not been tampered with since.

As a world economy, we spend like $100B/year on notarizing things and related kinds of non-repudiation record keeping. If it was really cheap, we'd do much more. And a big fraction of this could be done cheaper and with a higher agree of assurance by distributed ledgers than notaries.

Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by hiq on Saturday June 04, 2022 @01:58PM (#31623324)
> big fraction of this could be done cheaper and with a higher agree of assurance by distributed ledgers than notaries

These theoretical benefits have been around for 10+ years with little to show for it. Ledger-based solutions tend to focus on a tiny technical step of a big process without considering whether that's a bottleneck or even a non-negligible part and whether improving it actually results in a better solution.

I used to sympathize and engage with the theoretical arguments; but at this point a more productive approach is: if the advantages are such and such, where are the companies benefiting from this competitive advantage? Maybe this competitive advantage doesn't exist at all?

Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by Alex3917 on Saturday June 04, 2022 @03:11PM (#31624055)
> These theoretical benefits have been around for 10+ years with little to show for it.

The closest analog to crypto distributed ledgers is, well, ledgers. If you look around you, there probably isn't a single product that could have been produced without the adoption of double entry accounting. And yet that adoption process took around 300 years.

Crypto is on the exact same trajectory. When people look around them in 300 years, there probably won't be a single product that could have been created without distributed ledger technology. But obviously this isn't going to happen in any of our lifetimes.

The IQ test is being able to see the trend even though crypto is currently at literally 0.00% adoption (on the basis of total financial transactions). Sooner or later, reality always goes to par with the math.

Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by darkteflon on Saturday June 04, 2022 @04:46PM (#31624885)
> math

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by hiq on Sunday June 05, 2022 @04:38AM (#31629097)
> And yet that adoption process took around 300 years.

People used ledgers right after they were created, by definition, and long enough to go through all these years without that practice disappearing and without speculation to prop them up. So they brought value from the very beginning. Speculation prevents this logic from applying to blockchains (the value is making money by extracting it from gullible users).

> the trend

Which trend? If anything it's stagnant with just more scams, I still don't know anyone who uses cryptocurrencies for anything other than speculation.

Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by CryptoPunk on Sunday June 05, 2022 @07:35AM (#31630007)
>>Which trend?

1. Uniswap now has deeper liquidity on several major trading pairs than the leading centralized crypto exchanges, including Coinbase and Binance:

https://uniswap.org/blog/uniswap-v3-dominance

2. The volume of stablecoins on the blockchain is growing rapidly, notwithstanding the recent collapse of LUNA/UST:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1255835/stablecoin-marke...

Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by hiq on Thursday June 09, 2022 @05:55PM (#31687424)
> notwithstanding the recent collapse of LUNA/UST

If anything, that's an invitation to wait the next financial crisis to see what really is left of the "trend".

Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by mlyle on Saturday June 04, 2022 @02:49PM (#31623846)
> I used to sympathize and engage with the theoretical arguments; but at this point a more productive approach is: if the advantages are such and such,

Distributed ledgers are being used for real business cases in banking. Realizing these full benefits will take a very slow process of societal adoption and legal/evidentiary recognition.

I said "not going away". These use cases are going to slowly grow and become ubiquitous, but it will be a very slow process. It isn't some overnight disruption where notaries vanish and banking is dis-intermediated in the next 5 years.

> where are the companies benefiting from this competitive advantage

E.g. JP Morgan and Liink are quietly connecting hundreds of banks and using it to more robustly and quickly move payment-related information between banks.

Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by Kina on Saturday June 04, 2022 @04:54PM (#31624960)
> Distributed ledgers are being used for real business cases in banking. Realizing these full benefits will take a very slow process of societal adoption and legal/evidentiary recognition.

Looking at JPMorgan's Liink, there is no proof that this is anything more than a cynical publicity stunt to try to capture some of the money sloshing around in the crypto hype. Most of its touted features are things that could have been done without blockchain and should have been done decades ago if they were willing to invest in modernizing things.

Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by mlyle on Saturday June 04, 2022 @06:11PM (#31625577)
> cynical publicity stunt to try to capture some of the money sloshing around in the crypto hype

It's not being sold to end-user rubes. It's a way to try and suck banks into JPMorgan's technology ecosystem (promising to settle repurchase agreements faster and save lots of interest intraday).

It's not huge yet-- only about $1 billion per day flows through it.

Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by maccard on Saturday June 04, 2022 @03:20PM (#31624133)
> JP Morgan and Liink are quietly connecting hundreds of banks and using it to more robustly and quickly move payment-related information between banks.

At this point you're trusting JP Morgan and link to run the ledger. What if I disagree with a transaction and fork the ledger? How is this any different to JP Morgan running a SQL database and speaking a common protocol?

Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by mlyle on Saturday June 04, 2022 @06:11PM (#31625581)
> At this point you're trusting JP Morgan and link to run the ledger.

Liink is ETH derived, so it's hybrid proof-of-stake and proof-of-work.

(Of course, JP Morgan likely dominates both at this point, but they don't have to).

Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by maccard on Sunday June 05, 2022 @07:08AM (#31629878)
> (Of course, JP Morgan likely dominates both at this point, but they don't have to).

So what happens if someone comes along and stakes $X Billion and becomes the majority stakeholder? Do you _really_ think that JP Morgan will just sit and let that happen? That they won't fork? That Deutsche Bank will continue to stand by the ledger if a group of anonymous traders from China become the majority stake?

It's a technical solution to a political problem.

Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by hiq on Sunday June 05, 2022 @04:45AM (#31629132)
To quote Bruce Schneier:

> Private blockchains are completely uninteresting. (By this, I mean systems that use the blockchain data structure but don’t have the above three elements.) In general, they have some external limitation on who can interact with the blockchain and its features. These are not anything new; they’re distributed append-only data structures with a list of individuals authorized to add to it. Consensus protocols have been studied in distributed systems for more than 60 years. Append-only data structures have been similarly well covered. They’re blockchains in name only, and—as far as I can tell—the only reason to operate one is to ride on the blockchain hype.

https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2019/02/blockchain_an...

Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by mlyle on Sunday June 05, 2022 @12:27PM (#31632406)
> (By this, I mean systems that use the blockchain data structure but don’t have the above three elements.)

Liink appears to have all three elements Schneier describes-- an immutable ledger distributed over many participants that any of the participants can read; the ETH consensus algorithm; and the third is a US-dollar backed stablecoin.

> In general, they have some external limitation on who can interact with the blockchain and its features.

Yes, there's a limited number of participants with varying degrees of mutual trust. So this criticism is accurate, but I don't find the actual mechanism you get worthless.

In any case, note that what I said was not that blockchain was here to stay, but distributed ledgers. So even if one got rid of the specific consensus algorithm and the value token, you'd still have a distributed ledger.

Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by hiq on Sunday June 05, 2022 @12:46PM (#31632616)
As the other commenters have pointed out already, it seems to be a permissioned blockchain if anything, exactly what Schneier describes as already having existed for decades, nothing new, just marketing.

In particular it's not about having many trusted participants, it's about being public without any trust (from the blog post: "This ledger is public, meaning that anyone can read it").

Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by mlyle on Sunday June 05, 2022 @01:33PM (#31633078)
Again, I never said "blockchain is here to stay"-- just distributed ledgers. And, yes, distributed ledgers have existed forever, but their use by market participants at arm's length is new, as are many new tools we can use to build useful distributed ledgers (including blockchains!).
Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by cuteboy19 on Sunday June 05, 2022 @12:39AM (#31628065)
Dude I knew someone who work on that, it's not actually used for anything, just exist so that Jamie can check off "blockchain" in the next shareholders meeting. Private blockchain makes 0 sense.
Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by st34m on Saturday June 04, 2022 @12:53PM (#31622602)
It's quite useful for buying drugs.
Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by AviationAtom on Saturday June 04, 2022 @01:04PM (#31622746)
Don't hear of as many murder for hire plots involving it these days though
Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by rvz on Saturday June 04, 2022 @01:39PM (#31623112)
I don't know, maybe Stripe, Moneygram, TransferGo, Namecheap, Porkbun, etc seem to think otherwise?

These distributed ledgers are here to stay in fact. Unless in less than 5 years or so, they are all going to go away 100% totally guaranteed?

Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by DonHopkins on Saturday June 04, 2022 @01:12PM (#31622838)
Paperclips are here to stay, but would you invest in a company that only makes paperclip maximizers?

https://www.lesswrong.com/tag/paperclip-maximizer

Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by burnished on Saturday June 04, 2022 @01:46PM (#31623179)
Be the paperclip maximizer, instead https://www.decisionproblem.com/paperclips/
Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by mlyle on Saturday June 04, 2022 @01:21PM (#31622925)
Nowhere did I suggest investing in crypto (indeed, I have a track record of the opposite, and I was mostly agreeing with someone who was suggesting the opposite), so your comment is unhelpful.
Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by AviationAtom on Saturday June 04, 2022 @01:02PM (#31622726)
It'll happen again. It will just be a new set of coins/tokens, with new promises of new utility, and a new set of gullible people being takem advantage of. The sad part is schemes of the sort damage the image of actual future usefulness of blockchain technology. For now the crypto winter sets in, until the next thaw.
Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by la_fayette on Saturday June 04, 2022 @12:47PM (#31622538)
Haha, I lived through so many of these cycles im crypto, e.g., the ICO scams of 2017 and yet everybody said, now crypto is dead...
Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by geerlingguy on Saturday June 04, 2022 @12:54PM (#31622620)
How many of those cycles were decades-long?
Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by tempsy on Saturday June 04, 2022 @01:10PM (#31622817)
at this point there’s so much investment and attention dedicated to it that it will be willed into continued relevancy as much as anything happening organicly
Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by baby on Saturday June 04, 2022 @12:27PM (#31622290)
Yet everyone will tell you that the stock market only goes up
Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by brokencode on Saturday June 04, 2022 @12:38PM (#31622428)
The stock market goes up because the world economy goes up, allowing companies to make more profit. Someday that might stop, but it’s been going strong since the industrial revolution.

Cryptocurrencies don’t have that kind of track record. They also provide dubious value to society at best currently.

Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by bobthepanda on Saturday June 04, 2022 @12:42PM (#31622483)
Also this is true of the American stock market, where companies

* represent a broad swathe of the diverse American economy and more or less correlate with it as a whole

* have to issue regular, public, audited statements about their balance sheets

Crypto is none of those things.

Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by cjf4 on Saturday June 04, 2022 @12:33PM (#31622373)
The stock market does two things crypto doesn't: - generates consistent cash flows - produces real economic value
Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by jcranmer on Saturday June 04, 2022 @12:35PM (#31622395)
The Japanese stock market peaked December 29, 1989. It has yet to reach those heights again, 32 years later.
Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by mvc on Saturday June 04, 2022 @01:02PM (#31622723)
At least (unlike bitcoin), holders of this stock have received the odd dividend now and again.
Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by baby on Sunday June 05, 2022 @05:57PM (#31635207)
Heard of DeFi?
Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by Animats on Saturday June 04, 2022 @12:40PM (#31622462)
Maybe not. Crypto has never been through a general recession. A lot of net-loss stuff, from Uber to WeWork, was propped up by zero interest rates. That's over.

There will be other bubbles in future, but probably in other areas.

Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by BonoboIO on Saturday June 04, 2022 @12:34PM (#31622383)
Like tulips.

Still waiting for the bull market there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania

Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by anonporridge on Saturday June 04, 2022 @01:49PM (#31623208)
Fun fact, Tulip mania is mostly a myth.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/there-never-was-real-...

> So if tulipmania wasn’t actually a calamity, why was it made out to be one? We have tetchy Christian moralists to blame for that. With great wealth comes great social anxiety, or as historian Simon Schama writes in The Embarrassment of Riches: An Interpretation of Dutch Culture in the Golden Age, “The prodigious quality of their success went to their heads, but it also made them a bit queasy.” All the outlandish stories of economic ruin, of an innocent sailor thrown in prison for eating a tulip bulb, of chimney sweeps wading into the market in hopes of striking it rich—those come from propaganda pamphlets published by Dutch Calvinists worried that the tulip-propelled consumerism boom would lead to societal decay. Their insistence that such great wealth was ungodly has even stayed with us to this day.

Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by ProjectArcturis on Saturday June 04, 2022 @08:14PM (#31626561)
"merchants really did engage in a frantic tulip trade, and they paid incredibly high prices for some bulbs. And when a number of buyers announced they couldn’t pay the high price previously agreed upon, the market did fall apart and cause a small crisis—but only because it undermined social expectations."
Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by carlivar on Saturday June 04, 2022 @12:44PM (#31622510)
Yes, I referenced tulip mania to the Coinbase recruiter.

It's probably going to collapse worse.

Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by BonoboIO on Saturday June 04, 2022 @01:00PM (#31622708)
Losing everything ... what a nightmare

„Taiwanese Ends His Life After Losing $2 Million Luna Investment„

https://coinquora.com/taiwanese-ends-his-life-after-losing-2...

Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by anonporridge on Saturday June 04, 2022 @01:47PM (#31623193)
The problem for Coinbase, is that on the next boom cycle, a significant number of traditional stock exchanges will be slurping their milkshake.

Coinbase has only gotten as big as it is because they were effectively the most legit American exchange selling crypto. With Robinhood, Square, Paypal, and even legacy exchanges getting in the game, they won't have that advantage next time around.

Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by maxwell on Saturday June 04, 2022 @12:30PM (#31622331)
Every pyramid scheme eventually runs out of new suckers.
Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by dehrmann on Saturday June 04, 2022 @12:25PM (#31622259)
How are those beanie babies doing?
Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by onlyrealcuzzo on Saturday June 04, 2022 @12:38PM (#31622430)
Beanie babies and pokemon cards actually did quite well in this last mania.
Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by thebrain on Saturday June 04, 2022 @02:30PM (#31623667)
Beanie babies are actually a tangible object though. :)
Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by opportune on Saturday June 04, 2022 @12:28PM (#31622302)
Still waiting on the next gold rush to unload all my shovels
Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by tootie on Saturday June 04, 2022 @12:22PM (#31622219)
The fundamental unit of value backing crypto is mania.
Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by nikhilsimha on Saturday June 04, 2022 @12:44PM (#31622497)
That logic didn’t apply to tulip bulbs
Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by BonoboIO on Saturday June 04, 2022 @01:01PM (#31622715)
The next wirecard?
Re:Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers by sgt101 on Saturday June 04, 2022 @12:30PM (#31622329)
Just like tulips!