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Re:I disabled WiFi on the new Samsung fridge by arpinum on Monday May 30, 2022 @05:39AM (#31557159)
There are legal requirements for enhanced emergency calling in European cars. Cars must have the ability to alert emergency responders with location data. Don’t expect to be able to disable internet in cars going forward.
Re:I disabled WiFi on the new Samsung fridge by jhoechtl on Monday May 30, 2022 @05:46AM (#31557193)
The Chinese government at least is not in disguise about their surveillance plans whereas we see it sneaked in into more and more appliances of daily use.

I hate this coming Orwellian future.

Re:I disabled WiFi on the new Samsung fridge by Cthulhu_ on Monday May 30, 2022 @06:51AM (#31557628)
Eh? The EU directives are all above board and documented, so I'm not sure what you're referring to.

That said, they do need to be monitored at all time; abusing that location data for different usage is only one piece of legislation away. Which is why it's probably best to not gather this information in the first place.

To invoke Godwin's Law, iirc you are no longer required to fill in your religion anywhere, because the nazi's used records like that to track down Jewish people and others they were after.

This is why these privacy laws are so important, and why the right to be forgotten should be sacred; you should be able to disappear if the governments turn against you.

Re:I disabled WiFi on the new Samsung fridge by phpisthebest on Monday May 30, 2022 @09:56AM (#31558991)
If you wait for the government to turn against you to attempt to "disappear" it already to late.

The right to be forgotten is the wrong place to push for privacy, it should be the "right to never be known".

As to the "EU directives are all above board and documented" you know what they say about the road to hell, and good intentions right?

Re:I disabled WiFi on the new Samsung fridge by PaulDavisThe1st on Monday May 30, 2022 @11:15AM (#31559905)
The right to never be known, in the sense in which I think you must mean it here, is fairly simple to obtain. Stay off the internet and stay off cell networks.

Oh, you mean you want to be able to have your devices send requests to other people's devices and have them respond, but at the same time, you want there to be no record that your device ever did this? Good luck with that.

Re:I disabled WiFi on the new Samsung fridge by jhoechtl on Monday May 30, 2022 @07:10AM (#31557764)
You read or interpret this wrong. The EU government might be acting in good intention and I acknowledge that. Yet consumer electronics has the means to collect data for profiling like crazy. EU government data privacy acts are weak measures compared to liberal company laws with their seats outside the EU jurisdiction. Freemium will nudge far to many people to give away their data.

An GDPR relevancy outside the EU is just a paper promise.

Re:I disabled WiFi on the new Samsung fridge by Gare on Monday May 30, 2022 @09:46AM (#31558897)
How would you sell a fridge or a car in the EU if you're not compliant?
Re:I disabled WiFi on the new Samsung fridge by StanislavPetrov on Monday May 30, 2022 @11:23AM (#31559993)
Nothing like the government stealing your freedoms "for your own good".
Re:I disabled WiFi on the new Samsung fridge by ekianjo on Monday May 30, 2022 @07:29AM (#31557875)
how does that even fit with gdpr in europe? seems like a massive invasion of privacy without consent.
Re:I disabled WiFi on the new Samsung fridge by frafra on Monday May 30, 2022 @08:16AM (#31558202)
https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/security-and-em...

https://ec.europa.eu/justice/article-29/documentation/opinio...

https://www.phoronix.com/forums/forum/phoronix/general-discu...

It is mandatory to have it installed for new cars, but it looks like it can be disabled if the owner prefers to be left alone while dying, instead of calling an ambulance :D

Re:I disabled WiFi on the new Samsung fridge by xdennis on Monday May 30, 2022 @09:10AM (#31558594)
> it can be disabled if the owner prefers to be left alone while dying, instead of calling an ambulance :D

Nobody prefers to die. It's the part where it's capable of being active all the time that's worrying.

You also can't control the mandatory microphone. How long until someone abuses that (if it hasn't happened already)?

Re:I disabled WiFi on the new Samsung fridge by frafra on Monday May 30, 2022 @11:23AM (#31559989)
The device is built and tested according to some well-defined specifics; it is not connected to the network, and it is not capable of recording more than 3 positions and send them if an accident occurs, as well as establishing a phone call. Anything else is a violation perpetrated the manufacturer, as well as faking the specific tests that are formulated to check if the device is compliant: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:32...

Abuses can always happen, and we should put reasonable checks in place to avoid them. Is the current regulation good enough to minimize the risk of having them? I hope so.

Re:I disabled WiFi on the new Samsung fridge by codedokode on Monday May 30, 2022 @11:46AM (#31560231)
Note that this applies only to eCall system. Any other system that might be installed in a car doesn't have to stick to these rules.
Re:I disabled WiFi on the new Samsung fridge by tremon on Tuesday May 31, 2022 @05:41AM (#31567595)
Sure, but that "any other system" is not mandated by EU rules, which is what started this subthread.
Re:I disabled WiFi on the new Samsung fridge by frafra on Monday May 30, 2022 @12:03PM (#31560397)
It would still need to respect EU privacy regulations (as any other instrument, of course), which include consent. Nobody is forcing you to be tracked.
Re:I disabled WiFi on the new Samsung fridge by chopin on Monday May 30, 2022 @09:46AM (#31558886)
I have a new car and no, it can't be disabled. You can only disable tracking by the car company but not emergency calling.

Via IMEI tracking the cell providers have your location data, willingly or not. If you want to travel anonymously you'd better have an oldtimer. I know of lawyers who only visit clients with an old car.

Re:I disabled WiFi on the new Samsung fridge by frafra on Monday May 30, 2022 @11:12AM (#31559871)
As reported, installation of such device is mandatory (first link), but it does not need to be active. This is why some car manufacturers disable it upon request (see the third link). I mean, BMW and Porche disable that if requested.

Devices that allow tracking when no accident occurred, violate the current regulation. This is stressed multiple times. "not connected to the mobile phone networks until a serious accident happens" -- https://ec.europa.eu/newsroom/dae/redirection/document/5963

"it is not permanently connected to mobile networks" -- https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/fr/MEMO_1...

"not connected to the mobile phone networks until a serious accident happens" -- https://ec.europa.eu/newsroom/dae/redirection/document/5963

There is even a technical test to check if the device is compliant with the privacy regulations: "Procedure for verifying the lack of traceability of an eCall in-vehicle system", where the "Failure to establish the connection can be attributed to the 112-based eCall in-vehicle system not being registered on the network" -- https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:32...

Registering the SIM on the network before an accident occurred could be considered a violation indeed.

Re:I disabled WiFi on the new Samsung fridge by chopin on Monday May 30, 2022 @12:57PM (#31560977)
Unfortunately, something being legislated does mean nothing. In Germany, there has been Covid location tracking via an app (Luca App) for venues. Despite legislation explicitely forbidding that, police tried and gained access to this data.

My previous car sometimes came up with a warning that eCall currently is not available. I'd attribute that to bad reception which means that connection at least has been tried.

Re:I disabled WiFi on the new Samsung fridge by frafra on Monday May 30, 2022 @02:45PM (#31562218)
I know, there are plenty of cases (and this is why we should defend our rights and support associations like https://noyb.eu/ in my opinion), but I would object that having an app, running on an always-connected smartphone, which register and share data, poses a potential higher risk than an embedded device with a much smaller task that is tested and validated before being sold on the market. There is almost no data record in this case, thus a leak would have a minimal impact, while a backdoored/tampered/non-compliant hardware would still be problematic, but less likely (hopefully).

Your previous car could have had a non-compliant implementation, but it could be that the system run a passive network scanning from time to time, without trying any connection, just because it would be way faster to connect to a network and send a message if there is an up-to-date list of the compatible available operators. Having a better understanding about the specifics of the various implementation would be interesting. The devil is in the details :)

Re:I disabled WiFi on the new Samsung fridge by namibj on Tuesday May 31, 2022 @12:00PM (#31571156)
To connect to cellular (2G/3G/4G/5G), you have to listen for a beacon from a base station. If you don't hear a beacon strong enough, you aren't even allowed to try to connect (as it involves transmitting a connection request).
Re:I disabled WiFi on the new Samsung fridge by codedokode on Monday May 30, 2022 @11:43AM (#31560211)
> Devices that allow tracking when no accident occurred, violate the current regulation. This is stressed multiple times. "not connected to the mobile phone networks until a serious accident happens" -- https://ec.europa.eu/newsroom/dae/redirection/document/5963

Note that the linked document applies only to eCall In Vehicle System. Nothing prevent manufacturer to install a second system, using the same or separate modem, and track user's location and actions continuously. If the law requires you to install a GPS receiver and a modem, it would be uncapitalistic not to try to gain some profits from the data.

Re:I disabled WiFi on the new Samsung fridge by frafra on Monday May 30, 2022 @12:01PM (#31560367)
Sure, so? Is that mandatory? No. Would it require explicit user permission? Yes, as any other device or service in EU. The user or the manufacturer always have the ability to put extra devices which do whatever, if they respect the current regulations. This has nothing to do with having eCall installed by default.
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Re:I disabled WiFi on the new Samsung fridge by dang on Monday May 30, 2022 @06:45PM (#31564440)
Please don't take HN threads into nationalistic flamewar. It's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:I disabled WiFi on the new Samsung fridge by dzhiurgis on Tuesday May 31, 2022 @01:53AM (#31566496)
I respect that, but also the context is regional law, of course it’s going to have a nationalistic flair?
Re:I disabled WiFi on the new Samsung fridge by dang on Tuesday May 31, 2022 @12:23PM (#31571442)
It's all in the quality of the comment. The site guidelines try to help with pointers like this: "Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive."

The main things to do are (1) edit out swipes (e.g. "might be hard to understand for $group"), and (2) add enough information to make for a substantive comment.