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Re:Food security and the coming storm by hn_throwaway_99 on Sunday May 29, 2022 @11:17AM (#31549789)
> Commercial formula kinda is a magical combination of ingredients, including a substantial number of supplements that aren’t gonna be available to home cooks.

Do you have a citation for that? I see all these articles that just say "don't try it yourself, it's too hard", but I'd like to know which specific ingredients are impossible to obtain.

Re:Food security and the coming storm by tyrfing on Sunday May 29, 2022 @05:32PM (#31553078)
This writeup on Reddit has a decent breakdown of the pitfalls: https://www.reddit.com/r/medicine/comments/uvcijm/a_pediatri...

Looks like osmolality is a major concern. Good luck explaining that in a 30 second clip on CNN.

Re:Food security and the coming storm by hn_throwaway_99 on Sunday May 29, 2022 @08:43PM (#31554381)
> Good luck explaining that in a 30 second clip on CNN.

That's pretty much exactly my point, as I mentioned in another comment.

I'm having a difficult time believing that the ingredients or measuring devices are so difficult to replicate at home that it would be impossible to do. I think the more likely explanation is a large portion of the population, put generously, "lacks attention to detail", and so homemade formula would be dangerous for them.

Here's a good analogy. Saline solution (not disinfecting solution, just normal saline) for contact lenses is not complicated. It's salts and water. At one point it was possible to buy salt packets and mix it with water to make contact lense saline solution. However, it was critical the water be purified, distilled water.

Of course, a decent portion of the population thought plain tap water was good enough and ended up going blind, so the FDA banned the salt packets, and you can now only buy premixed saline.

So the FDA went out and said "Mixing your own saline solution can be really dangerous, don't do it." And they're right, mixing your own saline can be really dangerous, if you can't follow directions.

Re:Food security and the coming storm by tyrfing on Sunday May 29, 2022 @09:53PM (#31554769)
Yeah, even if it's possible in theory at home (I don't know, won't research it, and think it could very well be either - I think it's very likely the "100% correct" version isn't possible), it will result in harm statistically. Thus it's not standard of care, and recommending it will result in very expensive malpractice lawsuits.

Caffeine powder is also illegal these days.

Re:Food security and the coming storm by oneoff786 on Sunday May 29, 2022 @07:45PM (#31553999)
It’s crazy that in the face of health authorities saying don’t do this, it’s dangerous, your reaction is “prove it”, rather than doing some research on your own to counter your skepticism. The lack of trust in public institutions is deeply saddening.

The problem with baby formula is that it needs to contain precise balances of nutrition in specific forms that can be absorbed by the body in specific ways. Much in the way that a calorie is not a calorie is not a calorie, a nutrient is not a nutrient is not a nutrient.

Water down your baby formula? Now it’s different. Babies are sensitive. This could be dangerous.

This took such little effort to research on my own. The bar is so low.

Breast milk is unique. In the past kids had wet nurses as a backup. And when they didn’t, infant mortality was very high.

If you just tel people you can go make this shit at home, a lot of babies will likely die.

Re:Food security and the coming storm by hn_throwaway_99 on Sunday May 29, 2022 @08:35PM (#31554339)
> It’s crazy that in the face of health authorities saying don’t do this, it’s dangerous, your reaction is “prove it”, rather than doing some research on your own to counter your skepticism. The lack of trust in public institutions is deeply saddening.

I 100% disagree. I'm not an idiot. I can read a recipe, even a complicated recipe. And I'm not even saying they're wrong. I'm just asking for some simple example of why, for someone capable of following the instructions exactly, this would be too difficult to do at home. Not the right equipment? Fine. Ingredients that are not readily available? Fine.

But to go with some hand wavy bullshit, basically saying "Sorry stupid peon, this is just too complicated for you", is just dumb. On a site called "Hacker News" I think it's incredibly sad that a request for a more detailed explanation is met with "I think that's crazy".

Re:Food security and the coming storm by oneoff786 on Monday May 30, 2022 @12:02PM (#31560382)
Well for one, do some fucking research, as I suggested in the very passage you quoted, before you make bold assertions about what’s reasonable. The answers to your questions are easily found.

You do not have the ingredients. It’s not just foods. You cannot make safe baby formula from foods. You don’t have the equipment to produce it. It requires specific mixing and heating and what not to arrive at specific consistencies and sterility so that it is absorbable by the body correctly. You don’t have the measurement equipment to get the ratios correct to the margins needed. You don’t have the quality controls to check that they are ok for things like acidity. You don’t have the expertise to evaluate outcomes. You apparently don’t have the inclination to research it on your own either so it’s triply dangerous.

In the 20s people started using milk based formula. Babies got scurvy and rickets. They threw in orange juice. They got bacterial infections.

If you want to roll the dice with your baby’s health because you think you’re smarter than the government go ahead. Here’s Wikipedia, the simplest lowest bar of research you were unwilling to do but complain about either way. It has the basic progression. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infant_formula

Flour and milk mostly. Go nuts.

Re:Food security and the coming storm by SkyPuncher on Monday May 30, 2022 @10:40AM (#31559494)
> I 100% disagree. I'm not an idiot. I can read a recipe, even a complicated recipe

This thread has shown me how many people think baby formula is just some complex recipe that requires pureeing the correct vegetables in the correct ratios.

Making infant formula is more akin to making medicine/drug than table food.

We have home drugs (meth, heroin, cocaine, etc). Yes, they can be made safely, but they often not.

Re:Food security and the coming storm by SpicyLemonZest on Sunday May 29, 2022 @11:37AM (#31549969)
I wouldn't claim that the required supplements are literally not available on the commercial market, but the FDA requirements (https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/cfr...) include over a dozen nutrients to track, some within a relatively narrow safety range. It's not practical to expect that stressed, busy new parents are gonna buy all these supplements, much less break out their scales and carefully measure 2-7 micrograms of selenium per 100 kcal.
Re:Food security and the coming storm by IncRnd on Sunday May 29, 2022 @12:15PM (#31550283)
> It's not practical to expect that stressed, busy new parents are gonna buy all these supplements, much less break out their scales and carefully measure 2-7 micrograms of selenium per 100 kcal.

Brown Rice contains selenium. Even when not breastfeeding, real foods contain micro and macro nutrients that are beneficial for babies.

Re:Food security and the coming storm by oneoff786 on Sunday May 29, 2022 @07:51PM (#31554038)
> Brown Rice contains selenium. Even when not breastfeeding, real foods contain micro and macro nutrients that are beneficial for babies.

Slight variation in too little nutrients, or too much, or in forms that aren’t absorbed at the intended rate can be very dangerous. Throw in some rice? Ok now there’s extra sodium in there. The milk does too. Uh oh. Suddenly this is a complicated optimization problem requiring fine measurements and specific blending techniques.

Re:Food security and the coming storm by SkyPuncher on Monday May 30, 2022 @08:59PM (#31565154)
I can also buy 20 proof ethanol at my local gas station. It'd kill me, but hey way is gasoline any different than gin. They're both 10% ethanol.
Re:Food security and the coming storm by guerrilla on Sunday May 29, 2022 @11:48AM (#31550062)
It's surprising our species made it the first 8 million years without the FDA...
Re:Food security and the coming storm by SpicyLemonZest on Sunday May 29, 2022 @11:52AM (#31550102)
A lot of us didn’t! Infant mortality used to be orders of magnitude higher, and malnutrition in babies who couldn’t be breastfed adequately was a big contributor.
Re:Food security and the coming storm by guerrilla on Sunday May 29, 2022 @11:59AM (#31550170)
Now imagine if they had cheap vegetables, milk and blenders.
Re:Food security and the coming storm by oneoff786 on Sunday May 29, 2022 @07:39PM (#31553951)
This is very dangerous. Do not give advice on things you don’t know. It’s not just a vague nutrition profile you’re trying to hit.
Re:Food security and the coming storm by guerrilla on Sunday May 29, 2022 @09:21PM (#31554594)
Stop being ridiculous. It's not advice, it's an argument. Find your revipes elsewhere.
Re:Food security and the coming storm by oneoff786 on Monday May 30, 2022 @12:07PM (#31560437)
Well it’s a shit argument. You cannot create safe baby formula with vegetables and a blender.