Yep, it's almost more accurate to describe using phone numbers for 2FA as being anti-secure, not just insecure. That's because it's effectively no better than having no 2FA and it's possibly even harder to detect when your account has been compromised by a SIM swap. And many companies that use phone numbers for 2FA also allow resetting one's password via that phone number. It's really just a tragedy that companies do this, rather like when login screens prevent copy/paste.

If you're ever prompted to add a phone number to your account on some web service for "extra security", just click "remind me later" or "skip" as many times as possible.

Exactly. I did tell them many times before [0], [1].

They just won't listen. So give them a fine instead, that will make them listen.

The second 'wake up call' after the last one I've seen today: [2]

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29264937

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30010434

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31510868

Actually its more secure to use NFC yubikey w/ their app than google authenticator for TOTP bc the key is in the yubikey enclave vs the phones

The tradeoff is usability though. I can have a TOTP code stored on two separate phones in two separate locations versus needing a yubikey always present.

To me, I'm too forgetful and dumb to not lose a yubikey, but I manage to not lose my phone.

I just started using that and would recommend it. When you set it up you add each key you own from the same QR code.

You probably want both, as well as printing out some backup codes, to avoid the risk of getting locked out when something breaks.

Unlike FIDO/U2F, TOTP is susceptible to phishing. Getting locked out a serious problem and should be addressed with printed recovery codes probably.

My passwors manager has close to 200 records, thats a lot of peinted codes, id need a filing cabinet.

What I ia m in a different country, visiting damily, and the ubikey is lost - am i locked out of everything?

Yeah I'm extra upset about this because I would have chosen TOTP if I was given the option, but only sms authentication was available for 2FA for the longest time (until it became such a big issue with account takeovers including jack's I believe that they had no choice but to change that)

Or just get a phone and service provider who doesn't allow SIM swapping (e.g. Google Fi, etc.), since many more services only do 2FA with SMS than allow hardware authentication.

Any clear reason to go for Google for TOTP? As opposed to Authy or something else.

There's actually a very good reason to not use Google Authenticator actually.

They don't offer any backups (at least on iOS) and as a result, if you lose your phone, you are hosed. Google Authenticator also doesn't use iCloud for backup for files like other apps. I also just assume at this point no one owns that app and that it'll never get backups because that's how Google operates.

I've seen multiple people lose their TOTP codes this way and have been locked out of their accounts. Or even the more simple case, they buy a new phone, restore from backup and just assume everything is peachy then send their old phone back and then don't realize it until they open the app for the first time.

Use something with cloud backups for your safety.

Authy does not allow to make local backup (export) and it is fully closed source, not really transparent. I wish there were better alternatives.

Ravio OTP on iOS

I suppose you're talking about automatic backups, but at least on Android you can manually "transfer accounts" to export to another device over QR codes.

On iOS, I do see this feature, but it claims it will move the account, as opposed to "copy" it, and so, if it is a backup mechanism, they are explicitly pretending it isn't one.

Although it is primarily designed and labeled as an export mechanism, I can verify that it does work as a backup mechanism. I regularly use it to sync up new 2FA accounts to a backup phone. Simply choose to keep the accounts after exporting.

I got scared as hell a few years ago when an update bricked the app, so launching it caused it to immediately crash. Fortunately, reinstalling the app fixed it without losing any data.

But since then I started actually backing up my recovery codes, and whenever I create a new account somewhere, I set up 2FA on three separate apps on my phone just in case.

They offer one-time backup codes that can be used if a device is lost. I'm not sure if this is Google or the site, but for every login where I've set up Google Authenticator I have copied the backup codes to my password manager for that account. I'd agree that a lot of people might not do that however.

Google the site has backup codes for logging in to Google. Completely unrelated to the data in Google Authenticator.

Google Authenticator used to have no way to get the data out, but does now have an export. It still has no normal backups.

Luckily services makes clear that you should print backup codes in case you lose 2FA.

As for Android Google authenticator - there is export function, that generates QR code for all tokens. You can't screenshot it, but can take a photo with different device and print.

There is a clear reason not to use Authy, which is that making your data portable is extremely annoying. No export function. I ended up writing a 3rd party Authy client just to get my TOTP keys out.

For iOS users, I cannot say enough good things about https://apps.apple.com/us/app/otp-auth/id659877384. Author is responsive, encrypted backups, portable data format.

For android users, Aegis provides much of these benefits (as does andOTP). Both are open source, I like aegis a bit better.

andOTP has just worked for me across multiple device migrations for years. Encrypted backups to a git repo for mobile files managed with MGit.

Thanks. I have been looking replacement for Authy for quite some time because of no export function.

That's good one. Thanks.

Those were examples I thought people were likely to recognize, not vendor recommendations. I edited for clarity.

No, it's all the same.

You do realize that TOTP is a standard that doesn't require you to use either, that you can use the same secrets for any TOTP app, right?

You did read my comment where I suggested "Authy or something else", as in any TOTP app, right?