News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Apple Shipped Me a 79-Pound iPhone Repair Kit to Fix a 1.... by arcticbull on Saturday May 21, 2022 @12:54PM (#31459520)
They don't force you into the tools, the deposit or anything else - they offer you parts at the same prices they offer to third-party service providers and Apple stores. They even offer you credit for returning the old parts. If have your own iFixit kit, the only thing you're on the hook for is parts cost.

Access to the tools for what is likely at-cost shipping prices seems like an above-and-beyond thing to me that the right to repair folks weren't even asking for.

Re:Apple Shipped Me a 79-Pound iPhone Repair Kit to Fix a 1.... by paulryanrogers on Saturday May 21, 2022 @01:34PM (#31459969)
Considering that batteries still only last about a day and Apple led this shift to non-user-swappable batteries they still deserve some blame for landfill culture. Most of their efforts around repair appear to be the minimum anyone motivated by new sales would do once faced with looming regulation.

Even if at cost the extreme sophistication and complexity of such tools reinforces the point that these devices aren't really built for repair. They're built for eye appeal first and foremost.

Re:Apple Shipped Me a 79-Pound iPhone Repair Kit to Fix a 1.... by saagarjha on Saturday May 21, 2022 @01:44PM (#31460094)
> Considering that batteries still only last about a day and Apple led this shift to non-user-swappable batteries they still deserve some blame for landfill culture.

Sure, but it seems like this makes phones thinner and lighter and consumers want that. It "sucks" that Apple gave them that option and they went for it, but I don't consider this to be inherently malicious.

> Even if at cost the extreme sophistication and complexity of such tools reinforces the point that these devices aren't really built for repair. They're built for eye appeal first and foremost.

…these are the tools that Apple uses to repair your phone?

Re:Apple Shipped Me a 79-Pound iPhone Repair Kit to Fix a 1.... by ASalazarMX on Saturday May 21, 2022 @02:20PM (#31460408)
> Sure, but it seems like this makes phones thinner and lighter and consumers want that

Or Apple devices are also a tech fashion statement, so their loyal consumers will put up with everything Apple changes. iPhones could show off their sleek design if they weren't designed to need a case. People definitely wanted bigger screens and batteries for years, and Apple was very reluctant until the iPhone 10. I'm sure many iPhone users miss the fingerprint reader, but they won't get it, and they will still buy the next model because the slight and gratuitous design differences make it obvious you're using an old iPhone.

Re:Apple Shipped Me a 79-Pound iPhone Repair Kit to Fix a 1.... by nemothekid on Saturday May 21, 2022 @04:05PM (#31461310)
>Or Apple devices are also a tech fashion statement, so their loyal consumers will put up with everything Apple changes.

This argument is tired; it doesn't explain why every other manufacturer on the planet has also gone down this route. It's just an argument that helps nerds feel good (those other guys aren't real techies, like me, they only care about fashion).

Re:Apple Shipped Me a 79-Pound iPhone Repair Kit to Fix a 1.... by paulryanrogers on Saturday May 21, 2022 @04:53PM (#31461698)
Leading fashion brands have network effects and it can create something like Stockholm syndrome to those who buy into it. Other manufacturers often follow leading brands for prestige, or because people become accustomed, not always because the direction is objectively better when accounting for costs to future generations.
Re:Apple Shipped Me a 79-Pound iPhone Repair Kit to Fix a 1.... by pdoege on Saturday May 21, 2022 @06:04PM (#31462377)
No, it's because Apple phones have margin. They make money. Their competitors desperately want to make money.

They make their money selling phones wholesale into retailing supply chains. One of the rules of those supply chains is that the OEM eats the costs of early returns.

So they removed every widget that they possibly could and then glued everything down so that it could not possibly come loose, be dropped, wedged etc. during the warranty period.

Battery doors, headphone jacks, you name it. All gone.

End customers don't seem to care. Phones with swappable batteries, headphone jacks, etc. exist. They don't sell well in high margin markets.

Re:Apple Shipped Me a 79-Pound iPhone Repair Kit to Fix a 1.... by ASalazarMX on Sunday May 22, 2022 @12:47PM (#31470154)
Why are there so many imitation Louis Vuitton bags? If Apple makes a fashion phone with an hourglass shape, and they make money, others will copy it. just as Apple copied bigger screens and batteries, but labeled it as "Pro" or "Max" so following a trend felt new.
Re:Apple Shipped Me a 79-Pound iPhone Repair Kit to Fix a 1.... by paulryanrogers on Saturday May 21, 2022 @01:59PM (#31460233)
Intent is less important when we're burning the world for blue bubbles, cheaper waterproofing, and a few millimeters thinner.

If iphones had to be priced with externalities included (via regulation) I suspect they'd get user replaceable batteries shortly there after.

Re:Apple Shipped Me a 79-Pound iPhone Repair Kit to Fix a 1.... by ctbeiser on Saturday May 21, 2022 @02:52PM (#31460693)
I suspect that of all the things burning the world, it's mostly oil and cars. iPhones are unusually useful, but they're not unusually resource intensive.
Re:Apple Shipped Me a 79-Pound iPhone Repair Kit to Fix a 1.... by paulryanrogers on Saturday May 21, 2022 @03:09PM (#31460836)
Just because something is worse doesn't mean we should ignore the problems of the first.
Re:Apple Shipped Me a 79-Pound iPhone Repair Kit to Fix a 1.... by mikestew on Saturday May 21, 2022 @03:29PM (#31460984)
If you've ever heard someone talk about frying fish, and how they have bigger ones that need frying, they're probably speaking metaphorically.
Re:Apple Shipped Me a 79-Pound iPhone Repair Kit to Fix a 1.... by paulryanrogers on Saturday May 21, 2022 @04:45PM (#31461615)
Some things are mutually exclusive. User serviceable phones and more sustainable transportation are not.
Re:Apple Shipped Me a 79-Pound iPhone Repair Kit to Fix a 1.... by losvedir on Saturday May 21, 2022 @03:56PM (#31461216)
> Considering that batteries still only last about a day and Apple led this shift to non-user-swappable batteries they still deserve some blame for landfill culture.

I disagree. I think you're conflating home user repairability with longevity of the device. Just because the user can't repair it at home doesn't mean it goes in the garbage. More realistically a broken phone will be traded in, Apple will repair it, and it will be sold refurbished. Apple phones hold their value very well, and there is a booming second-hand market, even including officially by Apple.

I wouldn't be surprised if the average lifetime of an Apple phone exceeded that of even a "repair friendly" Android phone. I'd love to see data on that either way, but until we have it, you can't say whether the design of Apple phones contributes to landfill culture or not.

Re:Apple Shipped Me a 79-Pound iPhone Repair Kit to Fix a 1.... by paulryanrogers on Saturday May 21, 2022 @05:55PM (#31462305)
Apple is in a class of their own in some ways, so until they offer a repairable one I don't think a fair comparison can be made.
Re:Apple Shipped Me a 79-Pound iPhone Repair Kit to Fix a 1.... by neuralRiot on Saturday May 21, 2022 @03:51PM (#31461174)
I always say the same, people wants 2022 tech with the simplicity of 1980s tech. You’re holding more computing power in your pocket than the one that brought apollo to the moon and yet want servicing it to be as simple as undoing 4 screws.
Re:Apple Shipped Me a 79-Pound iPhone Repair Kit to Fix a 1.... by zootboy on Saturday May 21, 2022 @04:05PM (#31461307)
Yes, I want that. I don't really see how increased computational power should make a device impossible to hold together with 4 screws.
Re:Apple Shipped Me a 79-Pound iPhone Repair Kit to Fix a 1.... by ddingus on Saturday May 21, 2022 @10:28PM (#31464361)
Absolutely!

My 1980's tech is repairable, and a fair amount of it is still in active, productive use.

These phones and computers can be made more serviceable. Doing that will reduce profits and that is why it is not being done.

And so we have plenty of people who can figure out how to service the tech anyway! I am one of those types of people and have always explored fixing it no matter what.

(I do not do phones, though I have fixed tablets and computers)

There are always some of us with these skills. Humans are pretty great that way. We are considerably more diverse and capable as an species than we may appreciate.

And what happens?

Of course that lowers profit too!

Now we have right to repair as a thing to be settled because some of us are a bit too greedy for others of us to tolerate.

And regarding phones, my preferred phone is falling out of support. It had a headphone jack and performance is right there, sans a faster than 60hz display, which is no bother. Grew up with 60. Love it, but I digress.

I need to be careful with this phone, and that is fine. Keeps me from doing too much crap on it and that helps me be more productive and less tied to the thing. No worries yet.

Now, I have two of these. One has a cracked glass and a battery not long for this world. When I want, I hook it up to keyboard, mouse and display and it works great! Perfectly fine Android PC. I may start building some software for it too.

But, as it is right now, email, remote conferencing, Libre Office, Microsoft if needed, CAD, STL file, bitmap create, edit, Web, and, and...

I forget what the CPU is, but this old, glass cracked phone runs a Snapdragon fast enough to beat some Chromebooks I have gotten hold of.

Definitely worth winning Right To Repair. The up and coming generations are going to face a lot of challenges, and being economically challenged is, sadly, among the set of challenges.

My generation was similar, Gen-X. I grew up in fairly severe poverty. Fortunately, was not my entire childhood, but it was more than half. Made an impact, and the primary one was whether to spend to solve or repair to solve problems, and there is a ton of perfectly great tech laying around today.

It is crazy to be figuring out how we best avoid using it!

My 1980's tech is an Apple 2 computer. I still use it regularly. Mostly games, Nox Archaist released recently being top of the list. (If passers by enjoy "Ultima" style gaming, you can buy this title right off GOG and or Steam and play in emulation.)

But, yes I use it as a spiffy calculator, generating datasets of various kinds, terminal to embedded devices and when I get off my arse and finish my test and measure card, it will be a great bench computer just as it was back then.

Finally, as RMS has said about software freedoms, it is not important that people use those freedoms to the max. Many won't, and that is OK.

This is all about the people who will, or better --who have to for whatever reason.

It just needs to be possible.