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Re:Among a certain set, counterfeit luxury bags may be more ... by bambax on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @03:02AM (#31336677)
> But if you’re working hard for your money, you don’t want to spend it on stupid stuff.

And so, the reasoning goes, you want to spend it on less stupid stuff, such as fakes, because, for the same amount of money, you can own 10x more fakes than the real thing.

But why do you need 10 fake Birkins?

There is something profoundly sad about people who spend time buying stuff; it's even sadder when they argue that they're being clever because they buy cheap stuff, so they can buy more of it. They are, in effect, hoarders.

Re:Among a certain set, counterfeit luxury bags may be more ... by _uy6i on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @10:02AM (#31340076)
I think there is another element involved - there is the desire not to ripped off. Many luxury goods are aesthetically pleasing, but total rip offs. Take the ridiculous fad of designer shower sandals/slides, an adidas one costs $25-$35 [1] a Gucci one ~$400 [2] but both probably cost about $5. The point I’m making is if you want Gucci slides (for whatever reasons), and you’re galled by the markup, replicas would seem to “solve” your problem (putting aside all other problems it creates).

[1]https://www.adidas.com/us/adilette-comfort-slides/GZ5892.htm...

[2]https://www.gucci.com/us/en/pr/men/shoes-for-men/slides-sand...

Re:Among a certain set, counterfeit luxury bags may be more ... by secretsatan on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @02:34PM (#31343980)
I am just utterly baffled by it all, let’s just say i have a family member who is an out and out snob and very vocal to me about my choice of clothing. This person also considers themselves a fantastic money saver.

I myself, am of an unusual size, just slightly too tall and skinny for off the peg designer stuff in most shops, none of it fits me properly and looks terrible. But i do know shops with off brand stuff that actually fits.

So whenever i buy stuff i like and feel comfortable in, i’m “wasting my money”, but is happy when i pay three times the price for something that doesn’t fit me, is uncomfortable, and can’t actually clean without taking to a dry cleaner so i end up wearing once they seem happy. It drives me up the wall.

I do buy brands i like, eg, converse shoes are oversized compared to all other shoes so i can pick up the largest size in most shops and they fit me, but they aren’t the “right” brand and therefore “a waste of money”. I once spent an entire day trying to find some dress shoes that fit, they cost a fortune, are, tbh, dangerous to wear in real world conditions, and i’ve worn them three times, this, apparently is a good investment. I can’t bloody resell them, wtf?

Re:Among a certain set, counterfeit luxury bags may be more ... by digisign on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @05:18PM (#31345913)
Not sure what to say besides clothing isn't an investment, but a depreciating asset. Maybe if you're a very public person a good wardrobe would be a business expense.

As long as you are buying reasonable quality and comfortable, I don't think an adult has to explain their choices. ;-)

Re:Among a certain set, counterfeit luxury bags may be more ... by blfr on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @11:15AM (#31341180)
The thing I don't understand about luxury goods is why people outsource their taste to these massive corporations like LVMH for so much money.

For the price of an off the rack Armani or Prada suit you can have one custom tailored from a really good tailor. For the price of a LV purse, you can have five or more from a solid local artisan. Higher quality (or exactly the same because this is where these large manufacturers often order stuff), full customization, an actual professional to advise you but people choose a soulless megacorp logo instead.

Re:Among a certain set, counterfeit luxury bags may be more ... by whatshisface on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @11:33AM (#31341486)
The status conferred through clothing is not determined by anything so objective as fit or so friendly as self-expression. It is determined entirely by the people who see you. If your peers/coworkers/friends happen to think Armani is cooler, anything else would be an eccentricity. (This is why anyone with sense eventually converges on casual clothing.)
Re:Among a certain set, counterfeit luxury bags may be more ... by swearwolf on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @07:34PM (#31347379)
I think that’s the difference between fashionable and stylish. There are a lot of fashionable people, and it’s relatively easy to become one. You need to have some aesthetic sense, but 90% of that can be outsourced if you have the money. You simply buy entire outfits from high fashion companies, and make sure they fit you well enough to look good. Do that often enough that your clothes are always up to date, and you’re fashionable.

Stylish, though, is much harder to attain. A truly stylish person can look incredible in clothes they bought at the Goodwill, because they have an aesthetic sense potent enough to create visually pleasing combinations that are actually novel. A good example of someone like this is Tavi Gevinson. If you’re not familiar, she started a fashion blog called The Fashion Rookie at age 11, and she caught the attention of the fashion world by styling inexpensive clothing in novel and interesting ways.

Re:Among a certain set, counterfeit luxury bags may be more ... by HeyLaughingBoy on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @04:31PM (#31345350)
The designer ones can also be tailored, though.

I'm probably dating myself by saying that I used to work at Barney's New York when there was only a Barney's New York (the Womens's Store was still being built).

The first stop the salesmen (they were all male) took the customers to after picking out their suits was to the tailor (Attila on my floor) to get them altered for a perfect fit, which was included in the price.

Of course I get your point about cost effectiveness, but the average person dropping a few k on a single item of clothing really doesn't care about that.

Re:Among a certain set, counterfeit luxury bags may be more ... by fl0wenol on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @12:05PM (#31341901)
This is what the subreddit mentioned in the article sort of "discovered"; they spend a lot of time obsessing over the details and subtle variations they can get by working directly with factories and artisans in China. By using a real design as a template they cut out the difficult part of designing the whole concept from scratch and can work from a template but still achieve quality with some minor tailoring.
Re:Among a certain set, counterfeit luxury bags may be more ... by jdkee on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @03:31PM (#31344663)
Re:Among a certain set, counterfeit luxury bags may be more ... by anonu on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @11:38AM (#31341560)
Signaling. If you buy LV therefore you're rich.
Re:Among a certain set, counterfeit luxury bags may be more ... by partomniscient on Thursday May 12, 2022 @09:29AM (#31353847)
The signalling works differently depending on who you are.

In my case, if someone has a LV (or similar) bag/purse etc. I have no interest in interacting with them.

Interestingly, this 'signal' applies whether the bag is real or a cheap knockoff - I don't need to check whether the item is genuine, I assume I want to avoid interaction in both cases.

Re:Among a certain set, counterfeit luxury bags may be more ... by hnbad on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @04:08AM (#31337152)
> for the same amount of money, you can own 10x more fakes than the real thing

Or other things. Unless I missed the memo where they are paid in fake Birkin scrip that can only be exchanged for other fake Birkins.

Re:Among a certain set, counterfeit luxury bags may be more ... by throwaway0a5e on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @10:58AM (#31340914)
You sound like all the snobs who tell me my $10 (well, they're $15 now) harbor freight angle grinders are crap compared to their $100 Milwaukee

You know who never has to swap between wheels because he always has a grinder that already has what he wants on it?

This guy.

Ditto for basic socket sets placed at typical work areas, tape measures all over the fuckin place, etc, etc.

Quantity has a quality all its own.

Re:Among a certain set, counterfeit luxury bags may be more ... by bambax on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @11:09AM (#31341103)
I like that you're comparing Birkins to angle grinders.

But do you scrape the stickers and replace them with ones that say "Milwaukee", just to pretend you can afford the expensive brand? Because that's what we're talking about here.

Re:Among a certain set, counterfeit luxury bags may be more ... by stickfigure on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @11:31AM (#31341459)
AvE does a lot of teardowns of power tools. Here's a comparison of a HF vs Milwaukee item:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cSiI9MB9MA

I've watched a few of these and the upshot is that there's definitely a quality difference between HF and name brands. I've burnt out a HF angle grinder (which they replaced under warranty). For the most part, HF tools work fine for hobby use and sure they're cheap. But when this angle grinder dies again I'll buy a name brand one (for probably $50) - it gets a lot of use and driving to HF is annoying.

Re:Among a certain set, counterfeit luxury bags may be more ... by Arrath on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @11:39AM (#31341568)
This is the way.

If you're not sure how often you might use something: Buy the budget Harbor Freight equivalent tools, if you use it enough to wear it out/burn it up, upgrade to a better brand. If you never push it so hard it dies, you're perfectly fine with the HF version.

Re:Among a certain set, counterfeit luxury bags may be more ... by dokem on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @04:38PM (#31345434)
The HF subreddit also has good discussions on the quality of various tools. I'm kind of dissapointed that the HF quality and price has been going up over the years. A lot of people are only going to need that random tool a couple times a year, or maybe only for this one project. HF was perfect for that. Now they're trying to be a slightly cheaper Milwaukee/HomeDepot. Might as well spend a little more and get something that you know is going to last, in many cases. I'm mostly referring to their power tool line. RIP Chicago Electric.
Re:Among a certain set, counterfeit luxury bags may be more ... by BenjiWiebe on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @02:04PM (#31343631)
Or if you got lucky and got a truly good HF tool, in which case you are set there as well.
Re:Among a certain set, counterfeit luxury bags may be more ... by Arrath on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @02:07PM (#31343668)
Win/win!
Re:Among a certain set, counterfeit luxury bags may be more ... by digisign on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @05:23PM (#31345984)
I also buy no-name ~$250 bikes online (now more) because I live in a high theft area and don't enjoy maintenance either. So I get a new one every year or two when they get stolen, or broken then recycle the old one. Extra parts are in good supply as well.
Re:Among a certain set, counterfeit luxury bags may be more ... by pkulak on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @11:12AM (#31341143)
I feel like there's a pretty hard line between professional purchases and all other. The calculus of "spending" totally changes when it can directly impact "earning".
Re:Among a certain set, counterfeit luxury bags may be more ... by grrrrrbox on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @11:56AM (#31341788)
Quantity is usually more expensive than quality in the long run, though. This idea has been succinctly popularized by the "boots theory of socioeconomic unfairness":

>The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money. Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. Those were the kind of boots Vimes always bought, and wore until the soles were so thin that he could tell where he was in Ankh-Morpork on a foggy night by the feel of the cobbles. But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that'd still be keeping his feet dry in ten years' time, while a poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boots_theory

Re:Among a certain set, counterfeit luxury bags may be more ... by throwaway0a5e on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @12:53PM (#31342609)
That's BS and everyone who's not trying to justify a bunch of money they sunk into "premium" products knows it.

There is some relationship between price and quality (and I find this to be most true with things that are short term consumables vs longer term ones like clothing, home goods, etc). Namely you never get more than you pay for. But even assuming you're not getting less than you pay for (which happens a lot) the relationship is still rarely close enough to linear to work out in favor of anything but the cheapest goods or the cheapest goods that meet some specific criteria or feature that yields longer life.

Rich people's stuff lasts longer in large part because they can afford to over-provision and objects that are getting used at a fraction of "what they're good for" whereas poor people are buying the bare minimum and using it at 10/10ths right out of the gate.

Think about where a clipboard warrior on a construction site goes and what they do. Of course their clothing lasts longer than the general laborer who's climbing/crawling all sorts of places over all sorts of things and moving all sorts of material. They could buy the crappiest boots money can buy and still have them outlast anything the laborer wears.

The wealthy person buys a premium mixer that's more than up to the task of mixing what they want to mix. The poor person mixes bread dough with their Amazon-China special and hopes it's good enough.

The wealthy person pays for delivery or rents a truck. The poor person paid for the bump stops he's gonna use the bump stops.

And by wealthy here I mean HN white collar class people vs mid range blue collar type stuff.

Re:Among a certain set, counterfeit luxury bags may be more ... by buescher on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @01:01PM (#31342728)
I really hate that quote. For one, it is frequently hard to tell when you are actually getting quality by spending more. Sometimes you might just be paying for the label. For another, nice things often require expensive maintenance. Boots you will keep must be resoled periodically. Or you might not need or want to wear the same boots for years and years.

It's not at all uncommon for the cheap thing to be much cheaper in total cost of ownership (TCO) than the "quality" item. Take a look at Edmunds TCO numbers for cars, for example. And back to Harbor Freight: I've heard of shops switching to Harbor Freight air tools because they're 1/10 the cost of the good stuff and last, I forget, something like 1/4 as long.

Re:Among a certain set, counterfeit luxury bags may be more ... by grrrrrbox on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @01:37PM (#31343255)
Price is a necessary but not sufficient requirement for quality, but that's no reason to throw out the idea. Harbor Freight is also not a bottom-barrel brand these days.

Cars are actually a great example. $30k will set you up with a Camry hybrid for >20 years. If you can only afford to finance a $15k econobox, you'll end up paying extra on interest, maintenance, and fuel while your car spends more time in the shop.

IMO this theory gets unfairly maligned by a strawman of "price == quality".

Re:Among a certain set, counterfeit luxury bags may be more ... by buescher on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @02:24PM (#31343867)
Cars are a great example when you compare just about any used car to being able to finance a new $15K econobox - the econobox will win on TCO. (And at low interest rates, you are better off holding on to your cash and financing). But not when comparing new cars. A $16K Chevrolet Spark LS has a five-year TCO of $26460. Your Camry Hybrid LE (at least twice as much as a Spark in cash outlay) has a five-year TCO of $31903. The Corolla L, which is a sort of benchmark of frugality, has a five-year TCO of $28814.
Re:Among a certain set, counterfeit luxury bags may be more ... by digisign on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @05:26PM (#31346022)
That was true more often in the old days, but I feel like by ~2000 top brands realized they can just mark up everything 1000%. Linked to rise of the 1% it seems.

It's still possible to be too cheap however.

Re:Among a certain set, counterfeit luxury bags may be more ... by 88 on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @03:58AM (#31337071)
> But why do you need 10 fake Birkins?

Different colours?

Re:Among a certain set, counterfeit luxury bags may be more ... by Cthulhu_ on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @05:35AM (#31337651)
I guess the goal is to own things. It probably has overlaps with sneakerheads or other streetwear fans. There's another one where being seen wearing the same thing twice is a faux pas - you know the gossip magazines (and people into those) would be all over that.
Re:Among a certain set, counterfeit luxury bags may be more ... by vmception on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @11:20AM (#31341267)
My takeaway was that the community for fakes had wound up being stronger than the community for authentics, where the authentics are just an isolation from society while the fakes are comraderie and international currency
Re:Among a certain set, counterfeit luxury bags may be more ... by alephnan on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @03:36AM (#31336910)
> There is something profoundly sad about people who spend time buying stuff

It's their time and money.

Re:Among a certain set, counterfeit luxury bags may be more ... by dismantlethesun on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @05:09AM (#31337502)
Yes and they earned it through gainful employment thereby theoretically contributing the same or more to society…
Re:Among a certain set, counterfeit luxury bags may be more ... by alephnan on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @05:29AM (#31337625)
First, you're assuming all employment is unilaterally contributing to society.

Second, you're assuming people whose income isn't from employment aren't subject to taxes.

Third, you're assuming consumption is not contributing to society.

Fourth, how do you propose wealthy people redistribute to the masses ?

Five, you're assuming wealth is unproductive. Should wealthy people just hoard their wealth in cash and gold instead of income generating assets?

Re:Among a certain set, counterfeit luxury bags may be more ... by dismantlethesun on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @06:32AM (#31337998)
I think you may be assuming that I am arguing against people buying handbags. I am not. If it’s your money, spend it as you wish. Morally speaking society should only make sure that you didn’t earn money through harmful activities (e.g mafia dons), but it shouldn’t regulate regular spending on luxury goods.
Re:Among a certain set, counterfeit luxury bags may be more ... by nicoburns on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @09:58AM (#31340019)
I agree that society shouldn't regulate what people spend their money on, but I'd argue it ought to limit the amount of money that any one individual can accrue.
Re:Among a certain set, counterfeit luxury bags may be more ... by peyton on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @11:01AM (#31340963)
People will seek positions of power and use “favors” as currency instead.
Re:Among a certain set, counterfeit luxury bags may be more ... by nicoburns on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @11:37AM (#31341540)
Of course some will try to do this (not everyone). The aim is to limit their ability to do so. And one doesn't have to succeed entirely for it to be worth the effort.
Re:Among a certain set, counterfeit luxury bags may be more ... by RugnirViking on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @05:48AM (#31337708)
What a bizzare and combatative comment. Chill out.

You seem to be arguing against something the GP didnt actually say.

Re:Among a certain set, counterfeit luxury bags may be more ... by gadders on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @04:56AM (#31337442)
I can understand a bag collection better than I can buying Pokemon or Magic the Gathering cards.
Re:Among a certain set, counterfeit luxury bags may be more ... by bambax on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @05:02AM (#31337474)
But fundamentally they're the same? Except Pokemon cards take less room.
Re:Among a certain set, counterfeit luxury bags may be more ... by alephnan on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @05:22AM (#31337580)
How about art?
Re:Among a certain set, counterfeit luxury bags may be more ... by eternityforest on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @05:58AM (#31337776)
The article is paywalled, but maybe it's an act of protest against the general idea of status symbols?