News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal? by Stevvo on Friday April 29, 2022 @01:53PM (#31208552)
1) You misunderstood. The relevant part is "technical, diagnostic, usage and related information". Note it doesn't say 'video' anywhere there, and even it did it wouldn't hold up court.
Re:Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal? by mhitza on Friday April 29, 2022 @02:24PM (#31208920)
> but not limited to information about your RED Camera, Camera Module, computer, system and application software, usage, content, and peripherals.

Content might be anything stored on the camera in this case. I'm also glossing over the followup clause that states they are in their full right to remove in a future update features you already have.

Re:Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal? by cestith on Friday April 29, 2022 @03:14PM (#31209497)
Information about content is not the content itself. It's metadata as opposed to user data.

I'd be more concerned about the "not limited to" part than the "information about ..." followed by a long list of things they can get information about part. But I think, in my lay (non-lawyer) reading of that that they've set the spirit of the agreement. They don't want to miss some little detail in their list, but they're setting an expectation that their telemetry (if any) and their support department in case the owner asks for support can access metadata.

Re:Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal? by mytailorisrich on Friday April 29, 2022 @03:34PM (#31209699)
Yes, usually this turn of phrase is basically giving examples of what they mean while making sure it is clear that this is not the full, exhaustive list, if only just to be covered in case they decide to collect further diagnostic data down the road.
Re:Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal? by red_throwaway on Friday April 29, 2022 @02:22PM (#31208889)
But that sentence continues with

> including but not limited to information about your RED Camera, Camera Module, computer, system and application software, usage, content, and peripherals

Should I be reading the "content" part as "information about your content" ? As in, metadata about the content? Lens focal lengths, recording quality, codecs, etc? That would make more sense.

Re:Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal? by fjfbsufhdvfy on Friday April 29, 2022 @02:45PM (#31209137)
"usage" and "content" are part of a list following "information about", so they are collecting information about content, not content itself.

What exactly that means in practice, we are all just guessing unless you go and ask them to clarify. Probably things like what settings you used for your videos so they can analyze which features are most popular/worth improving.

At least in the EU, if this EULA was not clearly accessible/communicated on the store page before purchase, it would just be invalid, and you'd have a case that the product doesn't work. They're banking on people having more important things to do and just clicking accept to use their product...

Re:Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal? by Aaargh20318 on Friday April 29, 2022 @03:46PM (#31209821)
> "usage" and "content" are part of a list following "information about"

Sure, but that is preceded by “including but not limited to”, so that is a non-exhaustive list of examples.

Re:Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal? by thfuran on Friday April 29, 2022 @02:44PM (#31209125)
That's the correct reading but I'm not sure just how much leeway "including but not limited to" tends to get. Does that, in practice, mean "things like the following" or does it mean "literally anything"?
Re:Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal? by fjfbsufhdvfy on Friday April 29, 2022 @02:48PM (#31209171)
It refers to the previous section of the same sentence, these things are given as examples of "technical, diagnostic, usage and related information". It'd be up to a court to decide whether something not part of the examples could be reasonably called that.
Re:Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal? by Jiro on Friday April 29, 2022 @05:37PM (#31210836)
It means "things like the following". https://applawyers.org/blog/10317283