Re:Ask HN: Why can't I host my own email?
by tonmoy on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @11:20AM
(#31181022)
Microsoft had marked an email from a professor from an vt.edu domain email address as spam causing me to miss an interview for a PhD funding.
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Re:Ask HN: Why can't I host my own email?
by codegeek on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @11:26AM
(#31181146)
Microsoft is especially notorious for flagging legit emails as spam if they are not from one of the regular providers.
Re:Ask HN: Why can't I host my own email?
by cube00 on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @11:59AM
(#31181674)
Flagging if you're lucky, they outright 550 refused my mail until I joined their sender program and applied to have my domain unblocked. Then they proceeded to gaslight me claiming my mail was never blocked even after I forwarded their own error messages and IDs back to them.
Re:Ask HN: Why can't I host my own email?
by anonydsfsfs on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @08:21PM
(#31187430)
You got a 550? Lucky! When I worked at a non-profit that hosted our own email server, we had many instances where Microsoft would /dev/null our newsletter e-mails. Their servers would give a 250 indicating acceptance, but the e-mail was nowhere to be found (and yes, we checked the spam folder).
Re:Ask HN: Why can't I host my own email?
by codegeek on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @02:35PM
(#31183963)
yea unfortunately I have seen those as well. It is ridiculous at times.
Re:Ask HN: Why can't I host my own email?
by donmcronald on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @12:17PM
(#31181922)
That's nothing compared to the joy of dealing with legit emails that are flagged as high confidence phishing.
Re:Ask HN: Why can't I host my own email?
by maestroia on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @01:32PM
(#31183102)
Regular provider == (Microsoft 365 || an Exchange Server)
Re:Ask HN: Why can't I host my own email?
by 2OEH8eoCRo0 on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @01:12PM
(#31182781)
Honest question- why can't people sue for this?
Re:Ask HN: Why can't I host my own email?
by shadowgovt on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @01:28PM
(#31183047)
On what grounds would they sue for? Email is not the post; there is no legal right to receive one or to have one routed.
If one wants such legal protections, there is the post.
(Now, should there be such a right? That's an interesting question. But a world in which one exists would raise the bar to starting one's own email server even higher).
Re:Ask HN: Why can't I host my own email?
by mr_toad on Thursday April 28, 2022 @12:46AM
(#31188831)
> On what grounds would they sue for?
Negligent interference.
Re:Ask HN: Why can't I host my own email?
by shadowgovt on Thursday April 28, 2022 @07:47AM
(#31191371)
Possibly, but it would be a hell of an uphill battle. There was no contract in place for the email provider to negligently interfere with. And the email provider's operation was perfectly regular and within the bounds of the standards of that service (which offers no delivery guarantees).
Re:Ask HN: Why can't I host my own email?
by 2OEH8eoCRo0 on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @02:00PM
(#31183503)
You can't sue if a product doesn't work as intended and results in harm?
Re:Ask HN: Why can't I host my own email?
by shadowgovt on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @02:18PM
(#31183741)
It depends on the circumstances. In some cases, when guarantees are made and those guarantees are broken, you can sue civilly to be made whole (in a context like this where there was no bodily harm, merely an opportunity missed).
It's real unlikely any such guarantees were made. To do so would be extremely foolish for several reasons (the false-positive rate of spam identification is known and emails can fail to deliver because of an error at either end of the transaction).
Re:Ask HN: Why can't I host my own email?
by adgjlsfhk1 on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @02:33PM
(#31183931)
You can't sue someone (and win) for "this person did something that I don't like". You only have a case if you have a contract with them that lays out specific duties, or if they are otherwise a fiduciary of some form. Unless you signed a contract with microsoft for them to deliver your mail, they have no obligation to do so.
A legal protection would mostly entail disabling of spam filters.
Re:Ask HN: Why can't I host my own email?
by throwawayboise on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @01:28PM
(#31183046)
Email (SMTP) has no delivery guarantees. It's basically "best effort."
If you want guaranteed delivery with proof and tracability, send a registered letter at the post office, FedEx, etc.
Re:Ask HN: Why can't I host my own email?
by dusted on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @02:56PM
(#31184251)
unfortunately, access to the Internet is not well defined enough for this, and you basically have no right to a connection or any guaranteed privileges if you have a connection, which sucks.
Re:Ask HN: Why can't I host my own email?
by forgotpwd16 on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @10:05PM
(#31188045)
No guarantees clause in the terms of service you accepted to use their product.
Re:Ask HN: Why can't I host my own email?
by tonmoy on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @08:38PM
(#31187538)
I was using free email, I don’t know if MS has any obligation
Re:Ask HN: Why can't I host my own email?
by Fomite on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @07:45PM
(#31187208)
Former VT employee: It's not just Microsoft. Virginia Tech has a problem with their stuff getting flagged as spam.
Re:Ask HN: Why can't I host my own email?
by codethief on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @09:03PM
(#31187716)
I can't find it right now but a few years ago there was a post here on HN by a grad school admission officer who recommended to never use Gmail for applications, no matter what school you apply to. Apparently, it's anything but uncommon for emails from @*.edu to end up in spam.