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Re:No one expects young men to do anything and they are resp... by s1artibartfast on Sunday April 24, 2022 @10:30AM (#31144337)
The funny part about expectations is they don't have to match reality to have an impact. If you raise a child telling them they have no opportunity, their chance of success is quite low.
Re:No one expects young men to do anything and they are resp... by hammock on Sunday April 24, 2022 @10:34AM (#31144384)
That may work for a single generation. And the child soon grows up and meets reality. We are in a situation that has been developing for multiple generations

Edit: I agree with the replies and I’m not one for shirking personal responsibility to change your lot in life, nor not instilling an eye for opportunity in children. We are at a point where more may be necessary

Re:No one expects young men to do anything and they are resp... by psyc on Sunday April 24, 2022 @11:35AM (#31145038)
I've thought about this a lot. It's so much more than "every generation thinks the next is awful" - that's too glib. By my count we've had 3 consecutive generations disaffected, disillusioned, and alienated. It's as if, figuratively speaking, everyone born after 1970 is a 'latchkey kid' because the parent archetype still hasn’t come home or sobered up yet.

Even still, it's best to teach kids that they have more say than any other individual about their own future, and that anything is possible. If you must teach them that the world is hostile, you must also teach them how to beat it. You wouldn't refrain from teaching them tiger evasion just because the tiger is probably going to get them.

Re:No one expects young men to do anything and they are resp... by s1artibartfast on Sunday April 24, 2022 @02:12PM (#31146605)
Of course we can do more to have a robust economic ladder, but I dont think it is nearly as bleak and binary as people make it out to be. If you look at the actual data, there is still a lot up upward mobility. 60% of people who grow up in the bottom economic quintile improve their situation. [1] When thinking about the 40% that dont, there are a few notable facts:

20% of children in the bottom quintile dont graduate highschool.[2]

8% of men born into the bottom quintile are currently incarcerated.[3]

The traditional advice to children for how to be in the 60% that escape poverty is still true. Stay in highschool, stay away from drugs and crime, and go to college if possible. If poor children can do this, their chances of improving are actually quite good and not at all hopeless.

https://www.heritage.org/sites/default/files/~/media/images/...

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/High-school-graduation-r...

https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/es_2018...

Re:No one expects young men to do anything and they are resp... by hammock on Sunday April 24, 2022 @02:27PM (#31146755)
I disagree with the headline in that chart. What I see is 60% chance (i.e. more likely than not) of mobility up or down

Edit: you edited your post to be more than just a link

Re:No one expects young men to do anything and they are resp... by s1artibartfast on Sunday April 24, 2022 @02:42PM (#31146912)
I added a lot of text to get my point across more clearly
Re:No one expects young men to do anything and they are resp... by hammock on Sunday April 24, 2022 @02:49PM (#31146986)
The old Brookings Institute factoid is that the vast majority of the poor who graduate from high school; get a full-time job; don’t have a child before age 21 and get married before childbearing; move into the middle class.

You’ve provided some good research. Still I wonder how quickly it becomes outdated in today’s world.

Re:No one expects young men to do anything and they are resp... by s1artibartfast on Sunday April 24, 2022 @11:25AM (#31144929)
No Solution to this massive multigenerational problem involves teaching children to not try and give up.
Re:No one expects young men to do anything and they are resp... by awillen on Sunday April 24, 2022 @10:48AM (#31144519)
That only works in one direction though. If opportunity doesn't exist, it doesn't matter if you set expectations that it does.
Re:No one expects young men to do anything and they are resp... by DeWilde on Sunday April 24, 2022 @10:54AM (#31144575)
Still better to instill expectations even if opportunity currently does not exist. If it arises one day that person will do better.
Re:No one expects young men to do anything and they are resp... by giantg2 on Sunday April 24, 2022 @11:01AM (#31144662)
Until then they'll be crushed and/or feel lied to.
Re:No one expects young men to do anything and they are resp... by DeWilde on Sunday April 24, 2022 @11:43AM (#31145135)
I'm talking from experience, my drive to succeed helped me to take an opportunity when it came. Otherwise I'd probably be selling weed on the corner.

Or you think its better to evade temporary failure by embracing permanent failure?

Re:No one expects young men to do anything and they are resp... by giantg2 on Sunday April 24, 2022 @01:38PM (#31146259)
There's a difference between being ready to seize a realilistic opportunity if it comes along and being told that there will be opportunities if only they work hard. I'm guessing that opportunity that came along just happened to better than the opportunity to sell weed on the corner, right? I'm guessing there are others who see an opportunity to work a low paying job as being less of an opportunity than selling weed.
Re:No one expects young men to do anything and they are resp... by s1artibartfast on Sunday April 24, 2022 @03:09PM (#31147198)
I don't think it is nearly as bleak and binary as people make it out to be. If you look at the actual data, there is still a lot of opportunity for upward mobility. 60% of people who grow up in the bottom economic quintile improve their situation. [1] When thinking about the 40% that dont, there are a few notable facts:

20% of children in the bottom quintile dont graduate highschool.[2]

8% of men born into the bottom quintile are currently incarcerated.[3]

The traditional advice to children for how to be in the 60% that escape poverty is still true. Stay in highschool, stay away from drugs and crime, and go to college if possible. If poor children can do this, their chances of improving are actually quite good and not at all hopeless.

https://www.heritage.org/sites/default/files/~/media/images/...

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/High-school-graduation-r...

https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/es_2018...

Re:No one expects young men to do anything and they are resp... by DeWilde on Monday April 25, 2022 @04:22AM (#31151805)
Of course, better opportunities may come without working hard. But in my case the opportunity was only realistic as I spent years preparing for it. If I'd spent those years doing and selling drugs the opportunity would've came but it would have not been realistic for me to seize it.
Re:No one expects young men to do anything and they are resp... by s1artibartfast on Sunday April 24, 2022 @11:26AM (#31144938)
Is it really better to never try than risk disappointment?