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Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by bostonsre on Thursday April 21, 2022 @12:00PM (#31111223)
> Status is his drug of choice

Couldn't he have more noble causes in mind like trying to do the right thing for humanity (e.g. Tesla, SpaceX)? Social media is a cesspool right now, they seem to have a negative impact on democracy and humanity in general, and public social media companies have no incentive to clean themselves up because that will hurt shareholder value in the short term. Buying the company and taking it private will give him the ability to make those hard choices and try to make a social media company that is positive for humanity.

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by tablespoon on Thursday April 21, 2022 @12:04PM (#31111271)
> Social media is a cesspool right now, they seem to have a negative impact on democracy and humanity in general, and public social media companies have no incentive to clean themselves up because that will hurt shareholder value in the short term. Buying the company and taking it private will give him the ability to make those hard choices and try to make a social media company that is positive for humanity.

AFAIK, his publicly-stated plan is to not "clean [Twitter] up," but rather turn it into more of an un-moderated cesspool.

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by JPKab on Thursday April 21, 2022 @04:54PM (#31115050)
The perspective of "un-moderated" equaling "cesspool" is entirely based on whether or not you hold any opinions which are unpopular with the powerful.

I had an account I created in 2009. I had a modestly decent number of followers due to some past blogging on data science and DIY electronics. My account was suspended because I talked about the lab leak hypothesis before it was decided that it was ok to do so by The Good People™.

Maybe you hold some opinions that will also one day be unpopular with The Good People™. If you do, you'll soon find out that censorship is a very clumsy tool.

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by tablespoon on Friday April 22, 2022 @12:53AM (#31118333)
> The perspective of "un-moderated" equaling "cesspool" is entirely based on whether or not you hold any opinions which are unpopular with the powerful.

Eh, no. It's more about signal to noise ratio. Because if recent history has taught us anything, it's that crowdsourced lies are often at least as compelling as the truth.

> My account was suspended because I talked about the lab leak hypothesis before it was decided that it was ok to do so by The Good People™.

Realistically, "un-moderated" will be 99% Qanon and Stop-the-Steal and 1% the kind of stuff you say you posted. The most obsessive have the loudest voices in those spaces, and people who believe wacky things seem to be more obsessive than those who don't.

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by niknoble on Thursday April 21, 2022 @05:34PM (#31115468)
I'm with you, but should a person who holds no forbidden opinions today really feel worried that one of their opinions will be forbidden in the future?

You've got to think, if someone has the exact set of approved opinions today, that's almost certainly not a coincidence, but a sign that they form their opinions based on what is approved. And in that case they're at no risk of ever having a meaningfully unpopular opinion.

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by JPKab on Thursday April 21, 2022 @05:49PM (#31115613)
Unfortunately, you make an excellent point. And yes, I do think that the majority of people, when given the choice between what they know to be right and what they know to be popular, will choose the latter. Additionally, they will aggressively attack those who hold the unpopular opinion to buy themselves protection from the witch-hunters going after those with unpopular opinions.
Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by dahfizz on Friday April 22, 2022 @01:29PM (#31124955)
The lab leak stuff gave me whiplash for sure. Early on, if you had the audacity to suggest that a coronavirus came out of a coronavirus lab, people would unironically call you a racist fascist right-wing lunatic.

Now it's officially a credible theory[1].

This is exactly why moderating "The Truth" is so dangerous. The people claiming to be the arbiter of the truth are politically motivated and self serving.

[1] https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/16/politics/biden-intel-review-c...

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by JPKab on Friday April 22, 2022 @06:38PM (#31129084)
Additionally, most of them were utterly innumerate. There's nothing more infuriating than the "I'm not a math person" folks sitting there gleefully pretending to understand data as they disseminate mass panic.
Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by robonerd on Thursday April 21, 2022 @12:53PM (#31111930)
Maybe he thinks an unmoderated cesspool is better than a moderated cesspool. Either way, you're swimming in shit. Twitter not being a cesspool is an appealing fantasy, but only that.
Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by tablespoon on Thursday April 21, 2022 @03:25PM (#31114089)
> Maybe he thinks an unmoderated cesspool is better than a moderated cesspool. Either way, you're swimming in shit.

I'm sure he thinks that. Apparently he's a "free speech absolutist."

> Twitter not being a cesspool is an appealing fantasy, but only that.

It's not a binary condition. Twitter can be a cesspool with relatively more or relatively less shit. I'm sure his preference will result in relatively more shit.

Personally, I've appreciated a having society that lacks the shit Donald Trump created on Twitter.

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by wwweston on Thursday April 21, 2022 @12:56PM (#31111979)
> Buying the company and taking it private will give him the ability to make those hard choices and try to make a social media company that is positive for humanity.

If that's the goal, why not simply found another social media company built around those values?

Surely he has the means to attract tech talent to do it, the means/message to attract users to a new platform, and presumably if he knows what's bad about Twitter and how to subtract it and make it good, he could do this greenfield.

This would result in increased platform diversity, too. And I'll bet you it's cheaper.

Imagine if Musk had tried to buy a big three automaker in order to make electric cars happen.

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by native_samples on Friday April 22, 2022 @05:03AM (#31119571)
Because this isn't really about building a neat social network, it's about power.

People have tried to do what you said. Let's make a Twitter that's not controlled by the hard left! The result was Twitter's ideological allies at tech firms immediately banned them from every platform they controlled, and other allies ganged up to hack and destroy them.

You cannot start a Twitter competitor today, it's impossible, because:

1. The sort of people who found companies tend to be pro-free speech because their economic survival depends on having risky but correct ideas, and that naturally leads to a sympathy for free speech.

2. The sort of people who hate free speech are obsessed with Twitter/tweeting platforms specifically.

3. They are exceptionally aggressive. They will do anything, including damaging their own companies and even breaking the law in order to stop any other platform from becoming popular. They've managed to take over tech firms to a sufficient extent that they will destroy any attempts to replace Twitter, which they see as a key pivot point in their power over society.

The obvious solution: buy Twitter and fix it. It's too big to ban. This also has the major benefit of really, really upsetting Musk's ideological enemies. They'd hate him anyway and many are in powerful positions in politics and the media. Even the thought of losing Twitter to Musk has very conspicuously driven them into a frenzy in recent days, and such frenzies discredit them in the eyes of the general public, thus weakening their ability to move against Musk.

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by lavoiems on Thursday April 21, 2022 @01:12PM (#31112225)
> If that's the goal, why not simply found another social media company built around those values?

Twitter is one of the few social networks that actually has a network. A lot of social media failed because the cold start problem is a very hard problem to solve at this point in the game. Elon probably knows it and I would bet that this is why he is looking to buy an established social network rather than creating a new one.

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by wwweston on Thursday April 21, 2022 @01:20PM (#31112373)
It's a hard problem if you don't have the clout to get attention and/or if there's no particular demand for whatever distinction your platform offers.

Musk has market-moving clout and a cult of personality, so the remaining question would be if he has a compelling insight into distinguished features.

If he doesn't, he won't make Twitter better. If he does, he could make a greenfield platform a success.

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by redisman on Thursday April 21, 2022 @04:24PM (#31114734)
Google failed at it multiple times. Trumps network seems to have failed
Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by dlkf on Friday April 22, 2022 @05:44AM (#31119791)
> Imagine if Musk had tried to buy a big three automaker in order to make electric cars happen.

Bad analogy. Social media platforms are natural monopolies. The utility of a car doesn't grow with how many other people own that model. By contrast, Twitter's utility is basically just a function of the fact that all the relevant players use it.

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by wwweston on Friday April 22, 2022 @09:24AM (#31121251)
> Social media platforms are natural monopolies.

If this was the case, Facebook wouldn't have needed to buy Instagram and Whatsapp. Or hell, there wouldn't have been FB because MySpace would have been king forever.

Network effects are real and they can help sustain engagement and mindshare but given how easy it is to move fluidly between multiple forums (social or no), the next competing platform is one compelling reason for engagement away.

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by lkxijlewlf on Thursday April 21, 2022 @12:48PM (#31111878)
> Couldn't he have more noble causes in mind like trying to do the right thing for humanity (e.g. Tesla, SpaceX)? ...

> ...Social media is a cesspool right now,...

He would have greater impact if he used his account to not add to the cesspool, then. Much more than if he bought the company and kept tweeting like he does.

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by bostonsre on Friday April 22, 2022 @04:56PM (#31127996)
So.. what, we just let the dumpster fire continue on unabated and do nothing? I would argue his tweets are a lot less harmful than those that push false news in an attempt to change the route that democracies are following.
Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by rayiner on Thursday April 21, 2022 @12:42PM (#31111777)
Luckily this is also the right thing for humanity.
Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by phantomathkg on Thursday April 21, 2022 @12:35PM (#31111658)
> Couldn't he have more noble causes in mind like trying to do the right thing for humanity (e.g. Tesla, SpaceX)?

Why should he?

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by ufmace on Thursday April 21, 2022 @02:46PM (#31113629)
> Couldn't he have more noble causes in mind like trying to do the right thing for humanity (e.g. Tesla, SpaceX)?

Like what?

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by tayo42 on Thursday April 21, 2022 @03:24PM (#31114078)
Plastics in the ocean, mass die offs, hunger around the world, health care around the world
Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by ufmace on Thursday April 21, 2022 @04:49PM (#31115000)
Jeez, he's already launched Tesla and SpaceX, why's he gotta solve every problem under the sun before he does something not quite so clear cut.

And haven't we already established that no amount of money thrown around is going to actually fix "hunger around the world" or "health care around the world". How many billions have already been dumped down that hole to little effect?

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by tayo42 on Thursday April 21, 2022 @05:15PM (#31115285)
He didn't launch tesla, he bought his title. Neither company is really making the world better.

And idk why your so cynical about results. Just one example is Bill gates helping with polio vaccines.

Anyway I thought you were asking for better ways to actually help the world then buying Twitter. Plenty of research needs funding.

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by native_samples on Friday April 22, 2022 @05:05AM (#31119581)
Polio vaccines? Bad example. Whatever good they did in the past, most outbreaks of polio in the world today are triggered by oral vaccine rollouts.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7049a1.htm

https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/polio-outbreak-s...

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/polio-cases-now-caus...

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by outside1234 on Thursday April 21, 2022 @12:04PM (#31111279)
He could but he doesn't, because he is a narcissist
Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by sgjohnson on Thursday April 21, 2022 @12:08PM (#31111323)
It's really none of your business what someone does with their own money.

He could also do much worse.

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by nawgz on Thursday April 21, 2022 @12:12PM (#31111362)
> It's really none of your business what someone does with their own money.

Then don't you think people shouldn't have so much money that they can literally control society? What a facile stance.

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by erulabs on Thursday April 21, 2022 @12:32PM (#31111616)
Musk doesn't control society, neither does twitter. If electrifying the cars of the western world affords someone the insane wealth required to... buy an internet forum... that seems like a fairly reasonable level of control over capital allocation to me.
Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by nawgz on Thursday April 21, 2022 @12:42PM (#31111771)
I never stated anything about "complete control of society", I am merely making the point that money is essentially an abstraction of power and that modern society does nothing to prevent that, maybe it even is built to amplify that. Accordingly, to say "it's none of your business what others do with their money" is to say "it's none of your business how others use their power", and if you can't see how it's pretty directly everyone's business what everyone else does in our shared world, I think you and I understand ethics a little differently.

Edit: parent comment cleanly and completely changed due to my response, what a world. Cowards.

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by glouwbug on Friday April 22, 2022 @01:07AM (#31118403)
So what you're trying to say is that Trump Social should clone a load balancer or two and migrate to Postgres
Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by sgjohnson on Thursday April 21, 2022 @12:19PM (#31111456)
Musk doesn't have enough money to literally control the society.
Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by robonerd on Thursday April 21, 2022 @12:25PM (#31111534)
If controlling twitter means literally controlling society, then I hope he crashes and burns that whole affair. That much power should never be concentrated into a single corporation.
Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by nawgz on Thursday April 21, 2022 @12:31PM (#31111615)
I'm more talking about lobbying and the pernicious effects of a legal system modifiable by the elites. You can surely see that the rich and elite in society have written tax laws, property (IP, copyright) laws, employment laws, and complicated everything enough that the legal system is pretty directly pay to win.

I think the online giant platforms are another problematic avenue of control, I don't object to that characterization, but I'm really saying that saying "other's money is none of your business" can't be a good-faith statement in a world where money can control livelihoods and laws with such ease.

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by sgjohnson on Thursday April 21, 2022 @02:02PM (#31113009)
> but I'm really saying that saying "other's money is none of your business" can't be a good-faith statement in a world where money can control livelihoods and laws with such ease.

It absolutely can. I have no problem with the fact that money can buy politicians.

I have a problem with the fact that politicians can be bought in the first place.

Which are 2 completely different issues. If you had loads of money, you’d play the game too.

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by lovich on Thursday April 21, 2022 @03:48PM (#31114355)
Then we’re “playing the game” by caring how he spends his money and trying to use social pressure to force changes in law. You can’t simultaneously say Musk should be able to do what he wants because he can, and then tell others that they need to behave differently.

Well, you can, but it’d be massively hypocritical and an opinion that’s easily dismissed

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by moistly on Thursday April 21, 2022 @02:26PM (#31113349)
Oh, come now. It’s not our business if he uses his money to outright purchase a politician? It’s not our business if he uses his money in pursuit of The Most Dangerous Game? It’s not our business if he uses his money to run disinformation campaigns via social media? Of course it is very clearly our business what he does with his money.

If anything, we should not only be scrutinizing the hell out of Musk’s stated intentions, but also scrutinizing those people in the Twitter organization who have the power to manipulate the public message, and ensuring that there are checks in place to keep falsehoods and anti-democracy messaging out of social media.

I mean, really, “mind your business!”? So let’s pretend it’s some other mega-billionaire, shall we? We sure has hell don’t want the likes of Putin purchasing twitter, do we? Give your head a shake.

Edit: ah, shit, I see later in the thread you double down. What a waste of my time. Don’t bother responding, IDGAF.

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by Gollapalli on Thursday April 21, 2022 @03:18PM (#31114007)
>status vs noble cause

Why not both?