News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:The remarkable brain of a carpet cleaner who speaks 24 la... by rob74 on Thursday April 07, 2022 @07:37AM (#30943158)
Is it "normal" for Americans to not only not be able to speak a foreign language, but to not even know what the word "polyglot" means, and look at one like you would look at an alien (one from outer space, I mean, not one from another country)?
Re:The remarkable brain of a carpet cleaner who speaks 24 la... by VincentEvans on Thursday April 07, 2022 @08:07AM (#30943355)
Is that an attempt at a thinly veiled insult in a form of a question?

Or do you really think that one of the most powerful countries in the world is “normally” somehow full of ignorants? I’ll answer - not any more than where you are from.

Re:The remarkable brain of a carpet cleaner who speaks 24 la... by notafraudster on Thursday April 07, 2022 @11:27AM (#30945729)
I just spent a week in Morocco, a 3,000 USD per year GDP per cap country. In Marrakech, the modal service worker (so, we're talking about a guy who sells one dollar meat pitas, or leather goods, or whatever in a small store) speaks fluent Arabic, passable English and French, and probably at least some Amazigh. I got catcalled in German, Spanish, and Hebrew as well, just walking around shopping areas. This is a country where it's not unusual for someone to have a grade 5-8 education. I was in a Berber village where the modal young adult leaves school around age 10 to take part in agricultural activity; the village I was in got electricity around 15 years ago and is currently working on its first paved road. Everyone had conversational English, and fluent Arabic, native Amazigh -- this is probably an area where the GDP per cap is below 1,000 USD. Additionally, Moroccan Arabic is pretty strange compared to, say, standard Egyptian and so being a fluent Arabic speaker likely entails a bit more work. A friend of mine is currently in Nairobi on research (2,000 USD GDP per capita) and universally people speak fluent Swahili and English; most also speak various local languages.

In California, my social circle is mostly PhDs. These are phenomenally smart people. You go to a JPL party and the average IQ has to be 2 or 3 standard deviations above the mean. There are a lot of rooms where I'm by far the dumbest person. But most people I know are either unilingual or bilingual. Even in Southern California, a majority of people have sub-conversational levels of Spanish. I know very few people who are conversationally trilingual. Where I grew up in Canada, E/F bilingualism was somewhat common but very, very, very few people spoke a third language and most people had halting French. I'm in Ireland right now and native-born Irish speak English and a culpa focal of Irish, and that's about it.

What this says to me is that it's pretty unlikely that a country's tendency towards multilingualism is meaningfully correlated with education or economic status. And while I know the idea of measuring "intelligence" is completely fraught, I can at least say it seems unlikely that a random sample of people in one place are as intelligent as JPL people.

All this to say that in all three of the anglosphere countries I've lived in, people seem to have a mental block on the idea that a second language is essential, or that a third or fourth language are even feasible. Someone who fluently speaks four languages is considered a polyglot, a freakshow, some kind of Beautiful Mind. But then you go to Netherlands or Switzerland or Morocco and it's normal. And the reason for this isn't obvious to me: it doesn't seem to relate to income, education, it doesn't seem to obviously correlate with intelligence. It seems to just reflect some kind of cultural premium placed on language acquisition. I'd love to read more about why this is.

Re:The remarkable brain of a carpet cleaner who speaks 24 la... by jhanschoo on Thursday April 07, 2022 @02:04PM (#30948160)
I think the phenomenon of few multilingual people in the Anglosphere is the result of little actual social necessity or benefit from actually conversing in another language in everyday life, making it both more useless and more difficult to acquire. And they have good company as education subjects that the market doesn't value much that then acquire a cultural premium: with fine art and philosophy.

I think this becomes more acute when one's profession is specialized and the professional circle doesn't value multilingualism, especially because of how much harder it is to become exposed to the genre/technical writing and jargon of your professional language in another language, as opposed to mundane professions.

Re:The remarkable brain of a carpet cleaner who speaks 24 la... by Uniblaab on Saturday April 09, 2022 @05:37PM (#30972309)
In just guessing, but I bet its connected to the fact that you are measuring American English against the other languages. Its tightly connected to the fact that the dollar is the de-facto monetary standard to trade in the world. Other countries have to speak English to get involved but since we already do, there isnt a real reason besides intellectual curiosity to do the reverse.So we are uni-lingual while other countries have to be able to buy sugar in their native tongue and speak English when they want it shipped to their country. The truth of the matter is that virtually every modern immigrant -leaving out the Europization of America- is multi-lingual. If it were the basis of intelligence Americans would be behind the scholarship. So not an mysterious situation. Its because trade starts in many ways with the dollar, so no need to be multilingual.
Re:The remarkable brain of a carpet cleaner who speaks 24 la... by rob74 on Thursday April 07, 2022 @08:20AM (#30943477)
Sorry if it sounds that way! But if a Washington Post journalist is not embarrassed to not know the word "polyglot", and then describes polyglots as people she has only seen on YouTube, you might jump to that conclusion. Or, from her Spanish-sounding name, you might suspect that she does in fact speak at least two languages, but is trying to hide it in order to appear "normal"?

And I'm not saying that the US has a higher percentage of ignorants than other countries, but being one of the most powerful countries in the world, they are also one of the most (if not the most) self-centered. So, not a higher percentage of ignorance in general, but maybe a higher percentage of ignorance of other languages, cultures etc.

Re:The remarkable brain of a carpet cleaner who speaks 24 la... by VincentEvans on Thursday April 07, 2022 @08:34AM (#30943604)
US is probably (I am pretty sure it holds the top spot, but haven’t checked so, “probably”) the most diverse country in the world with people of all kinds of backgrounds, languages, nationalities, and races all living alongside each other. So I am not sure how might one in good faith imagine that they are unused to people speaking multiple languages.
Re:The remarkable brain of a carpet cleaner who speaks 24 la... by dahfizz on Thursday April 07, 2022 @09:01AM (#30943860)
The word "polyglot" itself is not a common one. People speaking many languages is very common. The USA is the most diverse country in the world.
Re:The remarkable brain of a carpet cleaner who speaks 24 la... by gilleain on Thursday April 07, 2022 @12:16PM (#30946519)
> The USA is the most diverse country in the world.

Is it. I was curious, and the first google hit I came across was:

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-dive...

  1. Chad - 0.8514
  2. Cameroon - 0.8426
  3. Nigeria - 0.8306
  4. Togo - 0.8118
  5. Congo (Dem. Republic of) - 0.8111
Not sure what this measure of diversity is, clearly the US is not the top of this list...

For example, in terms of language, Nigeria has 525 languages:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Nigeria

Re:The remarkable brain of a carpet cleaner who speaks 24 la... by VincentEvans on Thursday April 07, 2022 @12:26PM (#30946697)
From your link:

“Index value is the probability of two people selected at random from any one country speaking the same language. 1.0 is most diverse, 0.0 is least diverse.”

I leave the reader to judge for themselves whether that is a good measure to judge diversity as being discussed here or not.

Re:The remarkable brain of a carpet cleaner who speaks 24 la... by jmopp on Thursday April 07, 2022 @11:13AM (#30945505)
It's common for native English speakers to be monolingual. If there's no real need to learn another language, it takes more effort. Being able to speak multiple languages looks like a superpower if you only know one language.
Re:The remarkable brain of a carpet cleaner who speaks 24 la... by rospaya on Friday April 08, 2022 @07:34PM (#30963775)
Just teach it in schools like every other country - learning a language after a certain age is very hard, even with all the tech and apps we have today.
Re:The remarkable brain of a carpet cleaner who speaks 24 la... by KSPAtlas on Friday April 08, 2022 @07:55PM (#30963900)
Yeah, in an area where most people are monolingual being able to switch seamlessly from 1 language to the other is mind-boggling
Re:The remarkable brain of a carpet cleaner who speaks 24 la... by valenaut on Thursday April 07, 2022 @08:48AM (#30943719)
I'm a bilingual American (English and Russian), and I didn't know the word "polyglot" until a year ago. I learned it as part of a software localization project--it has never come up in my life otherwise.