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Re:The next Google by user3939382 on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @07:14PM (#30926359)
> For the bulk of Google's visitors, they're good enough

I'm not sure that's true. Just to pick an example, basically any type of product search now leads to auto-generated spam/borderline-spam websites that scrape reviews from Amazon, which are themselves often fraudulent.

I guess you could say that's "good enough" but only in the sense that someone being scammed at some point consents to something that makes them a victim of the scam.

For many searches, you'll see "reddit" autocompleted to the end of the search because Google's organic results are not good enough and people are trying to weed out the spam somehow, albeit in an imperfect way that restricts results to one site.

Re:The next Google by redmen on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @07:29PM (#30926489)
To add to that, most people are satisfied with snake oil and false cures.

I guess you could call that good enough.. I call it morally irresponsible.

Re:The next Google by ziml77 on Wednesday April 06, 2022 @12:25AM (#30928476)
I've been using Kagi search and I find the same stuff there. I can block them from my personal results as I encounter the garbage, but it's there by default.

And the people trying to get their garbage spam sites to rank high are wise to the common tricks people use to attempt to get better results. Just today I accidentally clicked on a result that from the title looked like it would lead me to reddit. I should have paid attention to the URL because instead I was sent through a bunch of redirects to some terrible spam site.

Re:The next Google by flawn on Friday April 08, 2022 @04:42PM (#30962270)
Is it powered by Google? I'd rather use an alternative which has the same quality of results as Google's engine.
Re:The next Google by unethical_ban on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @08:54PM (#30927100)
DuckDuckGo is horrendous for spam and malware distribution. I have stopped recommending it to non-technical people because they can't recognize the obviously evil/bad-pattern sites that are on the first page of many DDG searches I do
Re:The next Google by ipaddr on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @09:45PM (#30927505)
What are you searching for?
Re:The next Google by usefulcat on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @11:31PM (#30928184)
Ditto. Been using DDG for daily for years. It's far from perfect but this does not sound remotely familiar.
Re:The next Google by unethical_ban on Wednesday April 06, 2022 @02:40AM (#30929112)
User manuals for stereo systems, specs for old hardware. Anything that can be generically referenced, maybe a bit harder to find. Someone can throw up a webpage that SEO's on "manual" or "user guide" and when I type in "Sony DTH-345 user guide" I'll see results like "manualsonline.xyz" that are clearly bogus.

I can't lab it up now, but that is the gist. And DDG has it while Google rarely has the same level of it.

Re:The next Google by wmeredith on Wednesday April 06, 2022 @08:10AM (#30931141)
Isn't DDG just Bing's index with privacy (and some other QoL) features?
Re:The next Google by unethical_ban on Thursday April 07, 2022 @01:57PM (#30948073)
That's my understanding. And while I appreciate that Bing is the "baseline", I would be interested in what it would take for them to do additional cleanup on results. Blacklisting domains should be a no-brainer. "Safe search" for suspicious sites, not adult theme.
Re:The next Google by pers0n on Wednesday April 06, 2022 @09:15AM (#30931598)
Part of it is, that everyone already has heard about Google. Trying to get another search engine that people trust and have heard about is hard, not to mention it has to work decently.
Re:The next Google by greyhair on Thursday April 07, 2022 @03:26PM (#30949225)
Worse than that are the SEO results that don't give you what you want at all.

For products, one of the worst offenders is Target. Yes, Target. They show up near the top of about 60% of my searches, including for things they simply do not carry. But hey, they carry a similar product that you might be interested in! (not)

SEO results make Google money, but they also make the results suck.

Re:The next Google by bottled_poe on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @07:47PM (#30926631)
The scammers are aware of this too, and many online forums are filled with astroturfers.
Re:The next Google by Terry_Roll on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @09:23PM (#30927319)
Thats the advantage Facebook has, people trust each other if they know them or a recommendation comes from a friend of a friend, but you cant really see who is recommending something on Amazon, Reddit and other sites.
Re:The next Google by manigandham on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @09:46PM (#30927509)
What exactly is Google supposed to do here? They're returning what's available. Beyond that it goes from search engine to active curation and recommendation - and they are actively moving in that direction by replacing results with "answers", which I find to be much worse.
Re:The next Google by account42 on Wednesday April 06, 2022 @04:08AM (#30929678)
They could stop encouraging SEO.

They could start penalizing sites that show different things to googlebot and a real browser again.

The could do a better job penalizing sites that just copy content from other sites.

They could penalize ad-laden sites.

They could stop prioritizing youtube results over text content.

They could allow you to blacklist sites again.

They could do so many things.

None of this is curation, put priorization of search result is exactly what a search engine does.

Re:The next Google by redhedgehog12 on Wednesday April 06, 2022 @08:16AM (#30931175)
> They could stop encouraging SEO.

Have you read any of Google's advice to site owners? It amounts to "provide your users with what they're looking for, and do it with a fast and easy to use site". If you think SEO is an easy hack to get any site to the position 1 for any search, you're just ignorant of the landscape. All the "SEO" crap you see about keyword density or whatever, is just an industry trying to sound different and like they've got the key to position 1.

> They could start penalizing sites that show different things to googlebot and a real browser again.

Google is ridiculously good at this. Would be keen to see examples of a site that does this in a meaningfully negative way that ranks well for searches that matter.

I don't fully agree with all of your other points but I can see why you'd mention them.

Re:The next Google by russellendicott on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @10:18PM (#30927739)
Nothing, really. It's the "what's available" that's the problem. Quality paid services can't gain market share because free is a anticompetitive. Consumers will almost always choose it if it's not complete garbage. This throws all the metrics off for search because quality paid services become a statistical anomaly.