Steak tartare and carpaccio are two raw beef dishes that I love that are common in France and Italy, respectively. There are many others.

But American food practices are so awful that it is impossible to eat raw meat here, mostly: some places are careful. That's why cows are pumped full of antibacterials: because they are given growth hormones until their udders rip, and are constantly infected.

This doesn't happen in parts of the world where animals are raised and slaughtered in non-high-density, full-speed-ahead industrial production.

The main reason America needs so many food laws is because they try to scale everything up so that people can eat steaks every day for pennies. I'm exaggerating, but only a little. Americans gotta have it all, and you can raise animals ethically, safely, and without drugs with that kind of entitlement. That's why food tastes so much better in provincial parts of Europe, it's not a myth.

(Disclaimer: I roll the dice on steak tartar every once in a while)

While American food standards are definitely worse, it’s a mistake to say that in Europe raw meat is safe. Even in the most rustic of environments there are loads of ways for your raw meat to get messed up. So you’re needing to trust a lot of stuff and are rolling the dice a bit each time.

Of course everything is a dice roll, but turns out cooking meat solves a lot of problems.

Factory farming did not create food poisoning!

> Factory farming did not create food poisoning!

No one said it did.

But it exacerbates it by orders of magnitude.

Also odd to hear someone defending factory farming.

I was just reading the wiki on steak tartare b/c of this thread and was surprised to find its original name was steak à l'Americaine

I kept under-cooking burger patties to the point where they were still raw in the middle and thought "f** it" and ate them anyway. Then I moved on to eating straight raw meat for the novelty of it. I'm not sure that I'd eat raw pork, but supposedly today's regulations have mostly eliminated the possibility of trichinosis. Otherwise, I've found raw meat to be way less hazardous than I was lead to believe. I don't advocate for it, and I at least like a good sear on my steak. My risk tolerance is much less than that of many people, for better or for worse.

Rare burgers are really risky.

Steaks are OK because there’s not usually bacteria within a cut of meat (at least not a rotten one). Ground beef is all surface area.

> Rare burgers are really risky.

How risky? Compare it to other risks we are commonly undertake, like driving. If you can't quantify risk, you're not providing a useful comment.

The CDC recommends ground beef cooked to 160F, which is well above “rare” temperature (around 130F). So, you’re going against the food safety guidelines. I’d say that introduces risk (though hard to quantify exactly).

https://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/communication/bbq-iq.html

That same page says steaks should go to 145F which is pretty far into medium and will get you looked at funny in most reputable steakhouses.

So let's go back to: If you don't quantify risk, you're not providing a useful comment. That applies to the CDC too.

Good luck quantifying real world risks. What’s the risk of getting sick from a rare burger? Well, it’s the probability of a bad bacteria being present, then it not being killed by the cooking, and then actually taking root in your body.. good luck getting a number

Depends on how long the ground beef is left out. If you grind the steak right before you eat it there's not much time for bacteria to multiply.

That’s correct! Most of us don’t do that, but for those who do it’s a much safer option.

> My risk tolerance is much less than that of many people

If you mean you can tolerate more risk than others, that would be a higher risk tolerance.

Not that person, but...

In Germany, eating Mettbrötchen is rather popular in certain regions, and somewhat popular in the rest. As far as I know, that also applies to some neighboring nations.

A Mettbrötchen is basically minced raw pork with some salt, pepper and other spices, with onions on top or worked inside the meat. You put that on a baked roll (or sometimes other bread). There is also Mettwurst (sausage), although that's often at least smoked. Rarely the mett you'd eat raw is a mix of raw pork and raw beef. Mett may only be sold on the same day it was prepared, but it's rather popular so you will find it in basically every supermarket (especially the ones with in-house butchers), or you can buy ready to eat Mettbrötchen/Mettbrote (rolls/bread) in basically every full service bakery and some self-service ones.

I am not really fond of that to the point I would prepare that for myself, but have occasionally indulged when offered.

Bonus picture: Mettigel (mett hedgehog), which is for various popculture reasons a popular way to decorate the mett (before you put some of it on a roll/bread)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0a/Mettigel...

One could still freeze it like sushi fish to get rid of at least some of the pathogens.

One would think so, but it turns out, not really — the big concern in sushi fish is usually parasitic worms (like anisakiasis), which are live multicellular organisms that don’t survive freezing.

In chicken, beef, and pork, the concern is typically bacteria (like salmonella, and e. coli) or parasite cysts (like trichinosis), which are not killed by freezing.

Steak is the classic option in American cuisine, but in Germany (and some other countries), raw mince is a sandwich topping that you can buy from the butcher (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mett). Obviously you've got to eat it fresh, but it's not all that bad.

You were quicker with your response than I was (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30809570), I concede defeat :D

But in my defense, I got sidetracked googling pictures of Mettigel.

A completely understandable defence! ;)

Steak is most often prepared rare or medium-rare. Rare means raw in the middle, as that portion has not been altered by heat, hence the disclaimer on restaurant menus about undercooked foods.

Not even counting sushi which is wonderful, I don't know about most meats but raw beef at least is perfectly nice.

Raw fish can be delicious. Fijian kokoda is chef's kiss.