News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Tell HN: Did you know you can negotiate price on many thi... by paxys on Sunday March 20, 2022 @10:35PM (#30749457)
The leverage is – "I will not pay you and take the credit score hit, which I am okay with. You will then have to sell my debt to collections for pennies on the dollar. Instead of that, let's work out a favorable monthly payment plan."
Re:Tell HN: Did you know you can negotiate price on many thi... by _huayra_ on Sunday March 20, 2022 @10:40PM (#30749502)
I've always wondered if you can buy your own debt from collections and pay it off there, as some sort of soaring medical cost hack albeit tanking one's credit score.
Re:Tell HN: Did you know you can negotiate price on many thi... by axelsvensson on Tuesday March 22, 2022 @09:15PM (#30773722)
It appears you can. At least searching for "buy your own debt" gives results for entities who claim to help you do so, without tanking your credit score. "You're certainly not going to take legal action against yourself".
Re:Tell HN: Did you know you can negotiate price on many thi... by injb on Monday March 21, 2022 @08:49AM (#30753481)
Not sure, but you can definitely negotiate with debt collectors. They have been known to withdraw things from people's credit reports in exchange for payment. Especially if you play hardball and insist on seeing paperwork to prove they they have the right to collect.
Re:Tell HN: Did you know you can negotiate price on many thi... by xapata on Sunday March 20, 2022 @10:48PM (#30749560)
You can offer to settle, which is similar. A "settled in full" note goes on your credit report.
Re:Tell HN: Did you know you can negotiate price on many thi... by micromacrofoot on Monday March 21, 2022 @07:27AM (#30752750)
if you’re going to tank your credit score why bother paying at all
Re:Tell HN: Did you know you can negotiate price on many thi... by charcircuit on Sunday March 20, 2022 @10:46PM (#30749550)
Why can't they just sue you if you fail to pay? Surely if someone doesn't pay for your services there must be some legal means to get the money that you are owed.
Re:Tell HN: Did you know you can negotiate price on many thi... by toast0 on Monday March 21, 2022 @01:01AM (#30750480)
Getting paid today (or a payment plan starting today) is probably worth a discount over getting paid after a lengthy court process; even if you'll get compensated for legal fees and time value of money.

How much of a discount that's worth depends on the likelyhood of collecting after the legal process as well as how much of a reputational hit going through the process would be.

I wouldn't negotiate with most things after the service was performed (unless it wasn't to my satisfaction), but most services will have a firm quote before the service (sometimes that's legally required). A mechanic can keep your car until you've paid, but a hospital can't refuse to discharge you until you've paid, so they don't have the leverage to get immediate payment.

Re:Tell HN: Did you know you can negotiate price on many thi... by hedora on Sunday March 20, 2022 @11:30PM (#30749887)
Why do that, when they can sell the debt to a collections agency that's willing to pay:

(probability of recovery) * (1 - profit margin) * (amount owed)

today, for the right to sue on you behalf?

Note: I think the current debt collection system in the US is terrible, especially for medical debt. I suggest looking at the charity "RIP Medical Debt" if you do too.

At the very least, when selling a debt to a collections agency, the (re)seller of the debt should be obligated to first offer the same price to the person that owes money.

Re:Tell HN: Did you know you can negotiate price on many thi... by webmaven on Monday March 21, 2022 @01:30AM (#30750625)
> At the very least, when selling a debt to a collections agency, the (re)seller of the debt should be obligated to first offer the same price to the person that owes money.

That seems reasonable at first glance, but it would lead to an explosion of people simply refusing to pay and waiting for the 'debt collector price' offer to arrive.

Re:Tell HN: Did you know you can negotiate price on many thi... by samatman on Sunday March 20, 2022 @10:51PM (#30749595)
They of course can, and through small claims it's monetarily inexpensive, but it's both time and effort, and for more than small claims will handle, it's expensive. Some businesses won't show up personally at small claims and will get counsel involved, which is expensive.

Depending on the debt, getting most of the difference between the legal expenses and the debt itself is in reach, given a creditor who is a rational actor.

Re:Tell HN: Did you know you can negotiate price on many thi... by kube-system on Sunday March 20, 2022 @11:53PM (#30750036)
If you ever ask a lawyer to sue a person with not much money, you might get a proverb in response: "you can't get blood out of a stone". Literally, if someone doesn't have the money, you won't get it.

Suing people who don't pay their bills is a losing proposition. You will be paying lawyers and getting very little to nothing in return.

Re:Tell HN: Did you know you can negotiate price on many thi... by charcircuit on Monday March 21, 2022 @12:01AM (#30750090)
The difference is that we are talking about a case where you can pay bills but you just want a discount so you threaten not to pay.
Re:Tell HN: Did you know you can negotiate price on many thi... by kube-system on Monday March 21, 2022 @12:09AM (#30750147)
I'm on the same page. But, the hospital doesn't choose their collections strategy just because of one person. They can't see inside your bank account. Most people who can pay, pay. Most people who can't, can't. If they started suing people who couldn't pay, they'd lose money overall, so they don't.
Re:Tell HN: Did you know you can negotiate price on many thi... by DavidPeiffer on Monday March 21, 2022 @12:38AM (#30750346)
> They can't see inside your bank account.

In the "of course that exists" category, there are services that give a score about somebody's ability to pay.

I really hate how every business process can be (and frequently is) optimized to the nth degree at the cost of privacy.

https://www.equifax.com/business/product/ability-to-pay/

Re:Tell HN: Did you know you can negotiate price on many thi... by charcircuit on Monday March 21, 2022 @12:26AM (#30750253)
I didn't think of it that way. Thanks. So as long as most people don't try to do this then the negotiating strategy can work.
Re:Tell HN: Did you know you can negotiate price on many thi... by paxys on Sunday March 20, 2022 @10:59PM (#30749677)
If someone doesn't have the money to pay a debt then suing them isn't going to magically produce it.
Re:Tell HN: Did you know you can negotiate price on many thi... by charcircuit on Sunday March 20, 2022 @11:59PM (#30750074)
This submission is about getting a discount when you otherwise wouldn't have. If you can afford to pay in full. You have the money to pay.