News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Google open sources solar atmospheric water generator by Ansil849 on Thursday March 17, 2022 @04:04PM (#30715309)
So what is the practical use of this?

Let's say that I'm not an engineer or a researcher or a coder, but would like to set some of these units up to collect water. How do I do so? Do I approach someone to build this for me (who?)? How much can I expect it to cost?

In other words, how can I actualize this vision:

> So the H2E team asked: “What if you could put the power to generate daily drinking water into the hands of individuals, no matter where they live, by creating an affordable, easy to use device that harvests water from the air and is powered by the sun?"

Re:Google open sources solar atmospheric water generator by icegreentea2 on Thursday March 17, 2022 @05:02PM (#30715847)
The prototype described is tricky. Basically because they want low unit cost, they had to assume mass manufacture techniques such as vacuum forming. This means that the cost of small builds will be quite high (since there's a lot of jigging and molds that have to be 3d printed/CNC'd). Unfortunately, they don't have a BOM cost listed anywhere I've been able to find.

But also because this is a prototype, and they wanted to be able to tinker and measure, there's lots of design features and parts that are quite expensive and not really needed. Assembly also appears to be tricky and time consuming with non-trivial risk of damaging parts that then need to be repaired.

So ultimately you have a design and plan that's neither directly suitable for mass-production or low volume production (which is fine! it's a prototype! it's super not done). The prototype as described would likely form an acceptable basis for further revision.

You could probably go to a mechanical engineering design/consulting/prototyping firm with this and ask them to make it real with minimal changes (removing extraneous measurement devices, maybe swap out some of the grommets). It'd probably cost you like 50k at least to get your first one. Second one probably will cost like 100 bucks range.

Re:Google open sources solar atmospheric water generator by dawsmik on Saturday March 19, 2022 @11:45AM (#30734695)
There is already a similar device on the market called a dehumidifier. It takes a fair amount of electricity and costs over $150. I think the core of the problem may be the amount of energy it takes to harvest water vapor, especially in arid conditions. (Likely the areas where the need is greatest.)
Re:Google open sources solar atmospheric water generator by screenbreakout on Friday March 18, 2022 @02:20PM (#30725687)
Wouldn't producing prototypes like these with expert manual artisans in less "developed" countries be scales cheaper? like 500$?
Re:Google open sources solar atmospheric water generator by torginus on Friday March 18, 2022 @04:41AM (#30719875)
None. Or alternatively, gathering Reddit/HN karma or channeling NGO funds into overpriced useless science projects instead of helping people.

Thunderf00t has made a ton of videos about devices like this, for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGTRX6pZSns

The TLDW version is these devices are fancy dehumidifiers. They need a ton of power, and lots of air humidity to be practical, which are exactly not the conditions these devices are advertised to operate in.

And even then, the water they produce is dirty, so it needs to be purified and treated to be actually drinkable.

Even if we solve all these challenges, it turns out that doing something dumb and low tech, like transporting drinking water on trucks is actually a lot more efficient.

This is another one in the long list of devices designed to help those hypothetical poor people, like OLPC and the Gravity Light.

It turns out these people have already solved these issues, and much better, usually with off-the-shelf alternatives and a bit of ingenuity.

Re:Google open sources solar atmospheric water generator by seltzered_ on Thursday March 17, 2022 @11:27PM (#30718464)
I'm thinking wildly here and not getting into technicals, but it could also be seen not necessarily for humans but also for ecosystem restoration efforts in harsh remote environments.

For example, while I have some viability questions the company Terraformation has been trial'ing photovoltaic solar powered water desalinization (using brackish wells as a source) in deforested areas for water - https://www.terraformation.com/blog/solar-powered-desalinati...

If I understand correctly (still learning and might be wrong), another way to frame this is in perceiving water vapor itself - you can be in desertifying areas and yet supposedly have plenty of water vapor to a lack of evapotranspiration. This is what some have framed 'the second leg of anthropogenic climate change' - ( https://museecology.com/2020/10/30/15-professor-millan-the-s... , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mf4jwkhCk_A - "Desert or rainforest" , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdcsQw3ma_Y - "Restoring the Water Cycle 1" )

Re:Google open sources solar atmospheric water generator by adrianwaj on Thursday March 17, 2022 @05:16PM (#30715974)
Are there any sites that help build groups around current and upcoming open-source projects, and also encourage people to make stuff open-source - perhaps with pledges?

... a more business-focused GitHub.

... an OpenSea for inventors.

Imagine if money spent on NFTs would go to cool projects instead of avatars!

Re:Google open sources solar atmospheric water generator by TaylorAlexander on Thursday March 17, 2022 @09:20PM (#30717686)
> Are there any sites that help build groups around current and upcoming open-source projects, and also encourage people to make stuff open-source - perhaps with pledges?

Open Collective is designed to do exactly that:

https://opencollective.com/

Re:Google open sources solar atmospheric water generator by adrianwaj on Friday March 18, 2022 @04:31AM (#30719814)
Great.. in Discover, I think it would be good to be able to see "Collectives near me" to bring people physically together.
Re:Google open sources solar atmospheric water generator by kickout on Thursday March 17, 2022 @09:06PM (#30717602)
Also imagine if money spent on stock buybacks went somewhere productive. :/
Re:Google open sources solar atmospheric water generator by jimmydorry on Thursday March 17, 2022 @09:19PM (#30717683)
If a company can't think of anything useful and cost-effective to spend their money on, giving that money back in the way that passes through the largest portion of it is the most productive thing they could do.

Let the investors allocate their money efficiently, rather than buying a gold mine as a movie theatre company (as an example).

Re:Google open sources solar atmospheric water generator by ineedasername on Thursday March 17, 2022 @10:32PM (#30718175)
rather than buying a gold mine as a movie theatre

That's a pretty random example. Crypto? Maybe. But it's not like AMC is going to randomly get into the actual physical mining busin-- (hold on, it's 2022, lmgt just in case)

Yes, a perfectly good example.

Re:Google open sources solar atmospheric water generator by jimmydorry on Saturday March 19, 2022 @12:55AM (#30731189)
Yes, very 2022-esque. xD
Re:Google open sources solar atmospheric water generator by ineedasername on Thursday March 17, 2022 @09:43PM (#30717840)
My guess is that if there were clear answers to those questions then the project might not have been shutdown. The hope is that someone or some other project might find a piece of this useful, or more optimistically that someone will find a way past any of the problems that made X take a pass on it.

Or if none of that happens, at the very least it serves as a free bit of knowledge telling others going down this path "it didn't work"

Re:Google open sources solar atmospheric water generator by signalblur on Thursday March 17, 2022 @04:09PM (#30715357)
Potentially as a water source for data center cooling? Not sure if it’d scale to those needs
Re:Google open sources solar atmospheric water generator by Ansil849 on Thursday March 17, 2022 @04:12PM (#30715403)
My question was more, how does this help individuals without access to clean water, not a dystopian 'how can it be co-opted by corporations for business ends', but I appreciate the varying definitions of "practical" people have.
Re:Google open sources solar atmospheric water generator by krisoft on Thursday March 17, 2022 @04:40PM (#30715635)
> My question was more, how does this help individuals without access to clean water

If the principle of it is sound, which I cannot verify, then by a manufacturer picking up the idea. Developing it into a product and selling it to individuals.

They are basically saying (paraphrasing) "Hey we suck at manufacturing things at scale, so we won't continue with this idea. But we don't want to let our learnings go to waste. Go ahead and learn from our experiments and mistakes. Maybe one of you out there can make it work as a product."

Re:Google open sources solar atmospheric water generator by 8note on Thursday March 17, 2022 @05:00PM (#30715829)
Open sourcing a dehumidier isn't very exciting, mind you
Re:Google open sources solar atmospheric water generator by emteycz on Thursday March 17, 2022 @05:12PM (#30715942)
I think it's very exciting. I'd love to have everything in/around my house open source.
[dead]
Re:Google open sources solar atmospheric water generator by dylan604 on Thursday March 17, 2022 @06:27PM (#30716581)
What a totally disingenuous way to recieve the comment's spirit, which takes some serious miscontruing to take it to wherever you're trying to take it.
Re:Google open sources solar atmospheric water generator by samstave on Thursday March 17, 2022 @08:57PM (#30717554)
They way I misconstrued it was to assume that the door was wide open for a a fitting joke.

:-)

Re:Google open sources solar atmospheric water generator by dylan604 on Thursday March 17, 2022 @11:12PM (#30718391)
Such a lowbrow cheap joke to assume that open source means "come take all my stuff" vs "i've made this to share with everyone" which does a disservice to open source more than it is funny.
Re:Google open sources solar atmospheric water generator by samstave on Friday March 18, 2022 @12:01AM (#30718620)
Have a nice evening.
Re:Google open sources solar atmospheric water generator by antonvs on Friday March 18, 2022 @05:41AM (#30720174)
Found the MPAA / RIAA rep
Re:Google open sources solar atmospheric water generator by tgsovlerkhgsel on Thursday March 17, 2022 @06:16PM (#30716469)
> dystopian 'how can it be co-opted by corporations for business ends'

Why is it "dystopian" and "co-opting" if a company uses a technology like this to operate in a more environmentally friendly way?

People love to shit on companies (not specific ones, just "big companies" as a concept in general), completely ignoring where our standard of living comes from.

Re:Google open sources solar atmospheric water generator by marcellus23 on Thursday March 17, 2022 @09:41PM (#30717826)
Considering the project is self-described as a way to get drinking water into peoples hands, it certainly seems a bit dystopian to immediately jump to using this to collect water for DC’s… especially considering the original comment was asking “how do you build this”, not “what could you use this for”
Re:Google open sources solar atmospheric water generator by tgsovlerkhgsel on Saturday March 19, 2022 @11:14AM (#30734406)
I'd understand this more if the two uses would somehow conflict, e.g. by competing for a limited resource. But here? If anything, this is going to either preserve other water sources for others, or put more money behind the technology.
Re:Google open sources solar atmospheric water generator by emteycz on Thursday March 17, 2022 @04:19PM (#30715454)
People need DCs too, not just corporations.
Re:Google open sources solar atmospheric water generator by Ansil849 on Thursday March 17, 2022 @04:24PM (#30715493)
Yeah sure, but 1) prior to needing DCs, people need clean drinking water, and 2) the subset of people who need DCs is vastly smaller than those who need clean drinking water.
Re:Google open sources solar atmospheric water generator by emteycz on Thursday March 17, 2022 @05:10PM (#30715924)
Well I'm sure we can look at both problems at the same time.
Re:Google open sources solar atmospheric water generator by braingenious on Thursday March 17, 2022 @05:26PM (#30716078)
Wait, what?

What exactly is a data center by your definition? What individuals (that are entirely disconnected from corporations) need them? How many individuals have personal data centers of such a scale that they would need to produce liquid water on-site for their computing needs?

I genuinely believe you’ve described an entirely theoretical person that doesn’t reside in this universe.

Re:Google open sources solar atmospheric water generator by emteycz on Thursday March 17, 2022 @08:55PM (#30717536)
People need institutions to run functioning societies. These (public) institutions are one of the most traditional users of large-scale computing. Even in 60s there was a lot of computing done by public institutions. To fulfill the requirements of modern life, DCs are a must.

Most modern buildings have at least few racks of compute/storage for services like TV/phone/internet, camera recordings, etc. Even family houses have small racks nowadays.

Re:Google open sources solar atmospheric water generator by braingenious on Thursday March 17, 2022 @09:17PM (#30717668)
I’m aware that people and institutions need and have computing devices. What qualifies as a data center?
Re:Google open sources solar atmospheric water generator by jimmydorry on Thursday March 17, 2022 @09:26PM (#30717726)
This site is likely not hosted out of a person's closet, hence you commenting here is likely a product of a data centre.

Ignoring this specific example, a majority of the population uses social media for leisure and online tools for work (email, banking, etc.).

A majority of interconnects between ISPs and networks are hosted in data centres too... so there wouldn't be much of an internet without them.

If you closed all data centres over night, the majority of the above would disappear and certainly would not be able to scale as large as it had without data centres... hence, a majority of people need data centres to maintain their current standard of living.

Re:Google open sources solar atmospheric water generator by ineedasername on Thursday March 17, 2022 @10:43PM (#30718241)
The comment said "people", not "individuals" or "a person".

And considering how highly technical something like a modern water treatment plant can be, data centers are already a major force behind some of our potable water.

Re:Google open sources solar atmospheric water generator by tomrod on Thursday March 17, 2022 @05:40PM (#30716183)
I need one to host successful blogs and my data hoarding.
Re:Google open sources solar atmospheric water generator by jcranberry on Thursday March 17, 2022 @04:40PM (#30715641)
Considering they said allowing others to build on this progress I would imagine that they have not achieved their stated goal yet:

>The team aimed to build a highly lightweight, portable, cheap (<5% of user’s income) device that an individual could use to produce 5L of drinking water per day.