The problem is that most cars have lost their distinct personality due to brands consolidating into large conglomerates, and subsequently developing platforms to reduce costs.

I love old brands with models that stood out, and it's a shame that originality in engineering has been mostly replaced by assembling components together plus some minor aesthetic tweaks. I guess the situation is fairly similar to programming, where SICP has been replaced by gluing libraries together in Python. Perhaps it's a sign of maturity, but I miss some stuff from the past.

It’s sad. Every new car today looks like the same identical “bar of soap with wheels.” They are differentiated visually by small things like grille shape and lighting clusters. Everyone blames it on fuel economy and safety features but I think that simply no manufacturer is willing to be daring anymore, and they have trained their customers to like boring design. Even colors: you rarely see anything but white, black, gray, red, and blue.

Maybe it's a good thing - cars used less for social signaling and more for getting from A to B.

Brands of cars are still very obvious with badging and model names. They could be identical vehicles but people will still use the more expensive version to signal.

Audi, Porsche and Mercedes would like to have a word with you :) Every now and then companies come with different designs than a bar of soap. But it is getting rarer. However, if you think that Tesla is the future, you are right. For me, to spot the differences between Tesla model i need a meter.

Yeah, like the Porsche "surprised whale" Cayenne, or those Mercedes two-seaters that look like they are made from two different cars...neither of which can have looked very good to begin with.

Leaving aside whether it is good or not, I think this is the future.

When automated driving takes over, few will want to own a car. Most will rent from various fleets so they can watch a movie, play with their phone/partner/etc while they get from A to B. As usual, there will be good things about it and bad things.

And when you say "red" it's more like a merlot, a dialed-back red. "Blue" is almost black. But you forgot metallic beige, magnetic taupe, candy artichoke green....

Probably the most drastic counter-example would be the Aptera Vehicle (yes, that's the actual name). Assuming the production models release on time (late 2022 into 2023), it'll be the most distinctive-looking car on the road.

> Everyone blames it on fuel economy and safety features but I think that simply no manufacturer is willing to be daring anymore, and they have trained their customers to like boring design.

So many incredibly iconic and beautiful cars would be flat out illegal to sell today (in the EU at least). I'm not dismissing the lack of innovation (and more accurately risk aversion) as a factor. Regulation does drive a chunk of it though.

> Every new car today looks like the same

> Everyone blames it on fuel economy

If you're as obsessed with efficiency as Aptera, you end up with something very different and daring.

How about the cutting edge of Serbo-Croatian technology?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1LxlZ8pTRg

At least it has personality! :)

Also known as Fiat Ritmo

Fiat Ritmo was the product of one of the first platforms. For example, Lancia Delta was developed on the same FIAT platform, albeit with some changes.

> due to brands consolidating into large conglomerates

Worse, it's more like cowardly "risk aversion". Stay in the lines, don't take design chances. What color? Something conservative, maybe desaturated, maybe metallic....

Which is perfect for low visibility. I almost hit a conservative desaturated metallic car once when it was overcast, I was quite tired and the other driver did not turn on their headlights. If I like one thing about newer vehicles it's LED daylight running lights and automatic headlights that turn on in low light.

> it is by many considered to be "great design" (an Alfa Giulietta QV).

Is it? Lol, they're about the only new cars selling for under MSRP around here these days.

I was drooling over a beautiful white 1967 Duetto spider the other day though. What a pretty old thing that is, and sounds so nice too.

Alfa's are probably selling under MSRP because of reliability, not looks. They are definitely pretty cars, they are just also very Italian.

I like fast sedans and find the Giulia to be one of the few really attractive cars sold these days, so when the high-end Quadrifoglio version came to the States I put my misgivings about Alfas aside long enough to strongly consider one as my last ICE car. I came to my senses after at least two of the prominent reviews at release described going through multiple vehicles as their initial review cars died. Car and Driver's 40,000-Mile Wrap-Up of their experience with the car (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a23145269/alfa-romeo-gi...) said the QF "broke their heart" and lists a litany of issues, with the car out of commission for 80 days out of the 14 months they spent with it. They did say the car's an absolute blast to drive when it actually works, at least.

Modern Alfas are about as reliable as german cars these days, so reliability issues are more myth than fact. That being said, German cars aren't as reliable as Japanese cars.

The real problem isn't reliability but shitty dealer networks. Alfa have a knack for finding dealership networks that think it's great fun to have them in the showroom to pull people in, but aren't terribly interested in selling them or doing a good job servicing them.

My tip is to never use the dealership for servicing your vehicles (of any brand). Find a garage that has competent people, and who have respect for the work, and then pick whatever cars they are competent to work on. You don't want to spend a lot of money on a car only to have a bunch of underpaid teenagers who can only follow a manual work on your car.

> Modern Alfas are about as reliable as german cars

I've just read the other day that BMW is recalling 1M+ vehicles on the US market because of engine fire issues. What?

Last weekend we went on a trip and what do you know, smoke coming out of the hood of a burning BMW X3 on the other side of the road, fire brigade etc. When we returned we saw it reduced to a pile of burned down chasis.

A woman from a neighbouring office bought a brand new BMW X6 (the butt ugly ones). She had to take it back to the dealership because the engine would overheat.

They (BMW drivers) can always drive their cars like normal people, not smashing the foot on the gas pedal.

The perception of reliability still has an affect on price and depreciation. So maybe it's a good idea to buy them used.

Another complaint I've heard of Alfas is ergonomics sacrificed for looks, which is kind of a deal breaker for me.

That's probably true. Except lately. Good luck finding a cheap 4C or Giulia QV here.

The ergonomics: guilty as charged. Alfas are built for people who have the anatomy of an orangutan. I am not kidding. You need short legs and freakishly long arms to be comfortable.

But I don't mind :)

Not using the dealership to service your car requires that you have a lot of time. " Sir, x is broken, it takes 2 days to get it from the dealer".

I've done this for 20 years now and part delivery times are identical to dealer network here. They also tend to offer you more choices when it comes to parts (cheap, standard, upgraded etc).

The Duetto is the Spider's pretty little sister. It is unreasonably beautiful for something that you used to be able to buy for not a lot of money.

I grew up with the Kamm tail cars (and later the ugly rubber duck tails), but always preferred the Roundtail cars as the perfect expression of that body. You're right, you used to be able to buy them relatively cheap (although the Alfas were always just a bit more than the Fiats, MGs, Triumphs, Datsuns, etc), but now they're getting pricey. One just sold on BaT for $97K! Though you can still find ok runners in the $20K's.

The owner of this white '67 wanted $30K, too rich for my blood. But I had fun helping to diagnose a carb leak and rotor phasing issue with it. Old Italian cars are like boats, most fun when playing with somebody else's. Besides, I've got a Porsche 951 that more than keeps me on my toes.

The Giulietta isn’t sold in the US (your other comment indicates region).

No, you're correct. I meant Alfas in general here are selling below MSRP, not that particular model. Hot hatches don't sell nearly as well here as they do in Europe.

Ah gotcha. And yes you’re correct on that, Alfa’s re-entry into the US market has been such a mess, if I had to guess their only buyers are enthusiasts who know the brand and appreciate the tech or people who want something that isn’t BMW/Audi/Merc but still has some visual appeal. I hope they survive as one of the few remaining enthusiast brands, would be a shame for them to follow in FIATs footsteps.

That's something I've never understood: why do hot hatches not sell in the US?

I'm not a car guy at all, but to me the Alfa Giulietta QV looks like a veyron mated with a renault and the child got the worst of both.

You mean the Renault 5 or the Megane? I happen to like both. I've driven the Megane on two of the coolest tracks in the world and the spicy versions are a hoot and a half.

However, the Renault 5 Turbo 2, now that is a thing I desire: https://youtu.be/B2HjCrnr-NE

> When I was a kid it was the only thing that made me car-sick, and when I started driving I couldn't stand the horrible front end feel.

I got easily carsick as a child but don't see the same effect in my kids. I am wondering if it is partly the result of more conservative uses of vinyl as an interior material. The smell of that in the summer would make my hair stand on end...

Gawd, that Volkswagen aroma. I'm sure there's a German word for it.

Pferdehaar

How do I understand you. I kept a girlfriend for a long time because her father lent us his Alfa 75 Quadrifoglio. I have never driven anything more wonderful. The pleasure of those carburetors. The driving precision. I live in the mountains, every trip was a driving orgasm

Yeah...Our family changed from Saabs to BMW at some point (back when BMW was still cool and not something literally everyone owns), and I started getting less carsick.

The Saab was pretty cool but they really didn't need to do everything different only to be different. Some things were just plain weird.

Literally everyone owns a BMW? That's quite a bubble you're living in!

Where I grew up (in the 90s) they were known as “Basic Marin Wheels” so there are places where it’s almost the default.

They do in certain parts. Here in the greater Boston area, the roads are littered with leased BMW and Audi SUVs.

"The Census ACS 1-year survey reports that the median household income for the Boston-Cambridge-Quincy Massachusetts metro area was $94,430 in 2019, the latest figures available. Boston median household income is $8,587 higher than the median Massachusetts household income and $28,718 greater than the US median household income."

Can confirm there's a lot of cities it's true of. I bought a Hyundai/Genesis simply because I didn't want to be a BMW person.

I once owned a bright orange 1975 Alfa Sud, it was absolutely beautiful to look at but hell to maintain. I got a flat once, jacked it up and the chassis just bent. I've had a few Saab 900s over the years too and loved everything about every one of them.