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Re:Statement from Poland on providing airplanes to Ukraine by croes on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @02:57PM (#30605872)
All of Europe? Serbia begs to differ.
Re:Statement from Poland on providing airplanes to Ukraine by ceejayoz on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @02:59PM (#30605914)
https://www.axios.com/united-nations-ukraine-russia-141-5587...

> 141 countries vote to condemn Russia at UN

> Between the lines: Serbia, which has close historical ties with Russia, surprised many observers by voting in favor of the resolution.

Re:Statement from Poland on providing airplanes to Ukraine by grujicd on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @03:11PM (#30606130)
But Serbian president said we won’t impose any sanctions toward Russia. On the other hand, our president is not to be trusted with anything.
Re:Statement from Poland on providing airplanes to Ukraine by DyslexicAtheist on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @04:02PM (#30606903)
Guess it will be very hard for Serbia to continue doing business with a country that is about to be bankrupt in 8-12 weeks. Even a crime lord like Vucic will need to keep his gang fed. He has some hard decisions to make about whether backing RU because all their talks for EU membership will be in vain. This situation might force Serbia not to move forward with EU membership and EU themselves might become more aware of the Russian problem that manifest itself if Serbia would eventually join.

[1] https://balkaninsight.com/2021/02/16/in-serbia-states-ties-t...

[2] https://www.occrp.org/en/openlux/serbian-presidents-best-man...

Re:Statement from Poland on providing airplanes to Ukraine by grujicd on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @05:04PM (#30607786)
Talks for EU membership are not going anywhere for two decades. Not much to threaten Serbia with in this regard. I think Serbia's regime prefers this status-quo too, since it's easier to have authoritarian government without pesky EU rules about freedom of media, independence of courts, corruption, etc. Seems that EU prefers this status quo as well.

Trade with Russia is not that significant for Serbia, 5-8%. And we mostly import oil and gas. As long as EU keeps buying that from Russia there are no issues there. We export food to Russia, and we can probably have a barter trade if banking system is completely cut off.

All of this is pretty much insignificant and mostly about diplomatic "are you with or against us". Serbia is too small to make any kind of real difference either way.

Re:Statement from Poland on providing airplanes to Ukraine by stjohnswarts on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @03:56PM (#30606827)
As an American I can relate the same feeling with our previous President. He was a dumpster fire.
Re:Statement from Poland on providing airplanes to Ukraine by grujicd on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @05:08PM (#30607861)
On positive note, all other presidents in all other countries in the world suddenly looked more thoughtful and more reasonable while you had your 4 year show.
Re:Statement from Poland on providing airplanes to Ukraine by Ourgon on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @05:47PM (#30608354)
There's just that thing that had your previous president still been in charge we would most likely not be facing these problems right now. Most of your compatriots seem to agree with this statement [1], what do you think? Were the mean tweets a bigger danger to the world than what is waiting for us now?

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/feb/26/poll-trump-r...

Re:Statement from Poland on providing airplanes to Ukraine by ceejayoz on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @05:55PM (#30608454)
Why do you think an opinion poll of the general public has any value here?

Poll the public on general relativity or quantum physics and they’ll likely get it wrong. The same is probably true for complex geopolitical questions.

Re:Statement from Poland on providing airplanes to Ukraine by Ourgon on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @06:27PM (#30608805)
Because the general public is supposed to be the people who get to vote for your president? The US is, after all, supposed to be a representative republic - that "representative" stands for "representing the general public".

I thought that would be clear without the need for any explanation. Maybe the fact that explanation is needed gives an indication of the sorry state of the democratic process.

Re:Statement from Poland on providing airplanes to Ukraine by ceejayoz on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @06:50PM (#30609043)
Polling the public is a great way to see who might win an election.

It’s an insanely silly way of assessing “what would Putin have done in an alternate timeline”.

Re:Statement from Poland on providing airplanes to Ukraine by ClumsyPilot on Wednesday March 09, 2022 @08:39PM (#30622288)
Has everyone here forgotten that the reason Trump was impeached was because he was withholding support from Ukraine to Blackmail Zelensky? Has everyone already forgotten that he has deep russian ties and admires Putin?

Everything written is in such contradiction to reality outside my window, I can't help but wonder what are you smoking?

Re:Statement from Poland on providing airplanes to Ukraine by Ancapistani on Wednesday March 09, 2022 @01:55PM (#30618558)
I don't think we would be facing these problems, but I'm also objective enough to admit that we would likely be facing others.

On foreign policy - specifically, with regard to the tone of the US's involvement in NATO - I believe Trump was much better than Biden. On other issues, Trump was often... "suboptimal".

The biggest issue I have with Trump is what the person you're replying to said: "He was a dumpster fire." It's difficult to lead a country when the very tone of your rhetoric angers half of it. He anger the Democrats enough that many voters would have elected _anyone_ to replace him.

On the other hand, Trump's bombastic personality and over-the-top rhetoric is probably the only way a Republican could have been elected in 2016. I'm not sure it was a solvable problem.

Re:Statement from Poland on providing airplanes to Ukraine by stjohnswarts on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @06:34PM (#30608881)
He would have been -more- likely to invade Ukraine as Putin knows that Trump barely cares about the NATO countries, he certainly wouldn't have cared about Putin razing Ukraine to the ground. I will agree that nuclear war is certainly less likely if you let Putin do whatever he wants.
Re:Statement from Poland on providing airplanes to Ukraine by pkt_nspktr on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @11:12PM (#30610859)
If that was -more- likely to occur under Trump than Biden, why did it not? Based on actual historical evidence, Putin is more likely to invade Ukraine when Biden is in office (both as VP and POTUS) than when Trump was, regardless of whatever nonsense Trump was tweeting.
Re:Statement from Poland on providing airplanes to Ukraine by ceejayoz on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @11:47PM (#30611048)
Since we're wildly speculating on N=1 scenarios with no control group...

Perhaps the invasion was planned for a second term, and COVID threw a giant wrench in the works.

Re:Statement from Poland on providing airplanes to Ukraine by pkt_nspktr on Wednesday March 09, 2022 @12:41AM (#30611282)
Will four data points work?

N=1, 2008. Russia invades/attacks Georgia[1]. US President: George W. Bush; US Vice President: Dick Cheney.

N=2, 2014. Russia annexes Crimea[2]. US President: Barack Obama; US Vice President: Joe Biden.

N=3, 2017-2021. No invasion of Ukraine. US President: Donald Trump; US Vice President: Mike Pence.

N=4, 2022. Russia invades Ukraine[3]. US President: Joe Biden; US Vice President: Kamala Harris.

Since Russia/Putin has attacked its western neighbors during three of the last four US president's terms, it appears Trump constrained Putin's expansionism, regardless of whether we liked Trump's manner of diplomacy or not. And Biden was in office during the annexation of Crimea, so he can be the "control group" for pre- and post-Trump policies toward Russia.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Ru...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukrai...

-edited for readability.

Re:Statement from Poland on providing airplanes to Ukraine by dragonwriter on Wednesday March 09, 2022 @12:54AM (#30611350)
> N=3, 2017-2021. No invasion of Ukraine

False; Russian forces were continuously involved in Ukraine (even outside of Crimea) in the Donbas war, with no significant, even transitorily successful, ceasefire until late 2020.

> Since Russia/Putin has attacked its western neighbors during three of the last four US president's terms, it appears Trump constrained Putin's expansionism,

Since in fact that happened in four of the four last presidential terms, that doesn't work even if you ignore that the logic here is simply very weak correlation even if the premises were correct.

Re:Statement from Poland on providing airplanes to Ukraine by sidewndr46 on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @03:07PM (#30606070)
Alright, fair enough point. Belarus is safe for now.
Re:Statement from Poland on providing airplanes to Ukraine by xdennis on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @04:50PM (#30607603)
Belarus is already occupied by Russians.
Re:Statement from Poland on providing airplanes to Ukraine by pjc50 on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @03:45PM (#30606640)
Serbia have never been terribly keen on NATO since they intervened in Serbian genocide.