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Re:Military gap between Russia and Ukraine by jacquesm on Saturday February 26, 2022 @08:14AM (#30477251)
The bigger gap is between the size of Ukraines fighting age population, their motivation and the 'home court advantage' for want of a better term.

Scared Russian kids are fighting for crappy pay 1000's of km from their home against far more numerous people that are defending their families and their home country against an invader.

The Russian losses are already mounting, but obviously you won't hear about that inside Russia.

Re:Military gap between Russia and Ukraine by UltraViolence on Saturday February 26, 2022 @08:20AM (#30477291)
A human life is inconsequential in an authoritarian regime. The only thing that counts is that the dictator stays in power, trumping all other concerns.

This holds in both China and Russia.

Re:Military gap between Russia and Ukraine by graphpercolator on Saturday February 26, 2022 @08:55AM (#30477581)
This is a video game view of war though. As if the authoritarian has a video game controller that lets the video game characters do as the authoritarian pleases.

This has nothing to do with the reality of the Russian military on the ground.

Surely, the Iraq invasion was over so fast exactly because so much of the Iraq military did not want to die to defend Saddam Husein.

The will to fight is so asymmetrical in Ukraine. Surely, the Russian military is not oblivious to what the world thinks of this. So one side is willing to die to defend their country and the other side probably just wants to get back home alive and get this over. The Russians also can't just level every city to the ground and call that victory. They have to break the will of the people without destroying everything.

It is a recipe to lose the war even if you win some battles. The Russian path to victory is extremely small and maybe even impossible in this situation.

Re:Military gap between Russia and Ukraine by jacquesm on Saturday February 26, 2022 @08:58AM (#30477602)
And there is no Russian 'endgame', they will be under attack forever, whereas for the Ukrainians there is a very clear goal.
Re:Military gap between Russia and Ukraine by jonathanstrange on Saturday February 26, 2022 @08:28AM (#30477359)
I don't think this is generally true, there are already dissenting voices quite high up in the Russian government hierarchy. The full-scale aggression against the whole of Ukraine seems to have caught many high-ranking government and military officials by surprise. The decision was made in the Kremlin. Of course, it is unlikely that these people will take huge personal risks to rectify the situation, so it doesn't make too much of a difference in the short term. But I thought it's worth mentioning.
Re:Military gap between Russia and Ukraine by graphpercolator on Saturday February 26, 2022 @09:04AM (#30477634)
There has to be so many questions in so many of the Russian boots on the grounds minds about this.

That matters more IMO than what the military brass thinks.

Re:Military gap between Russia and Ukraine by jacquesm on Saturday February 26, 2022 @08:32AM (#30477397)
Yes, but they don't have any power, until someone actually stands up it is Putin that is in charge, and if someone does stand up it will still be a very iffy outcome, chances are that that person would be dead in 24 hours.

Watch the inner circle security council meeting in Russia for some idea of how afraid everybody is of him.

Re:Military gap between Russia and Ukraine by blagie on Saturday February 26, 2022 @08:45AM (#30477501)
.... I don't think this is quite true in China. The Chinese political system is complex, but I think it's trying to do right by its people. It just has an extremely non-Western perspective on the concept of "right." The Chinese political establishment doesn't concern itself with the rights and outcomes for individuals, in the way the West does. It concerns itself with the outcome of populations.

In the US, the needs of the individual outweigh the needs of the many. In China, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. If an individual or a group is disrupting the collective good, they need to be managed.

China has done amazingly well for improving the general welfare. It was a very poor country until just a few decades ago. Extreme poverty is on-track to being eliminated, if it hasn't been already (depending on where you place the threshold). Thing like access to housing, food, and medicine are improving. Schools are excellent.

Once you have those basic needs met by everyone, China seems to be moving onto handling issues like stress; the human load of the progress, in terms of work weeks, was tremendous, and China is trying to curtail that, perhaps not to Western standards, but to something manageable.

China has increasingly started cracking down on corruption too.

It has problems, and I'm not trying to downplay those, but it's not Russia, where an oligarchy is draining and bankrupting the general population for their own betterment.

Re:Military gap between Russia and Ukraine by whodunnit on Saturday February 26, 2022 @12:18PM (#30479553)
I think China is trying to do right by China, while the people are secondary. They are such a different culture than the West it’s hard to see their system from our perspective as anything but totalitarian and abusive, but the idea that the collective is more important than the individual is a valid perspective, just not one that fits with Western ethics, which we hold to be the superior perspective, naturally.
Re:Military gap between Russia and Ukraine by istjohn on Saturday February 26, 2022 @11:27AM (#30478931)
China is also happy to steam roll large portions of its population, e.g., Uyghurs, Tibetans, Hong Kong; and has no regard for privacy or free speach or democracy. I'm not sure a genocidal regime can really be said to treat its people better than Russia.
Re:Military gap between Russia and Ukraine by nine_zeros on Saturday February 26, 2022 @08:26AM (#30477346)
This is so true. The veil of nationalism is only a tool for the authoritarian. Individuals who fall for the authoritarian are merely "useful idiots".

If you are Russian and reading this, fight to end authoritarism in your country.

Re:Military gap between Russia and Ukraine by jacquesm on Saturday February 26, 2022 @08:27AM (#30477353)
That's very true. But the ability to wage war is subject to real world constraints, no matter how deranged the dictator.
Re:Military gap between Russia and Ukraine by goodcanadian on Saturday February 26, 2022 @08:41AM (#30477476)
Yes, I actually feel quite bad for the Russian soldiers. Russians view Ukrainians as, well, family. So, to be told that you are going in to kick a few Nazi asses and you will be welcomed as liberators, and then be faced with the reality that your "brothers" are fighting tooth and nail against you must be quite jarring. As you say, losses are mounting, and eventually, it will be noticed. This morning, I saw that Zelensky has requested that the Red Cross help repatriate the bodies of the Russian soldiers. He framed it as a humanitarian act, but doubtlessly, he wants the Russians to see their war dead coming home.
Re:Military gap between Russia and Ukraine by jacquesm on Saturday February 26, 2022 @08:46AM (#30477510)
I feel bad for the Ukrainian soldiers. The Russian ones are well aware that they are in a war of aggression, and they have the option to desert.
Re:Military gap between Russia and Ukraine by DyslexicAtheist on Saturday February 26, 2022 @09:49AM (#30477961)
> and they have the option to desert.

sadly it's a lot more nuanced :(

-- (apologies for x-posting this from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30477618) --

Russia had some trouble[1] recruiting for this mission. Pay is a joke, and they had to hire a bunch of aging convicts with nowhere else to go:

>> Two Meduza sources referred to the formations taking shape in the “people’s republics” as “Dirlewanger brigades,” because they actively enlist former inmates. “Those [joining up] in Luhansk were in prison,” said an individual personally acquainted with members of the new unit. “And then suddenly they turned up in this detachment. They’re real criminals, and besides that they’re no spring chickens [aged 45 and up].”

it gets worse:

>> Indeed, Meduza’s sources believe that those who accepted the recruiters’ offers likely have a rather low level of training. “All the rest are [on combat trips] in Africa or in the sands [Syria],” explained a Russian security agency veteran familiar with the recruitment campaign. “Nobody’s raring to go to the ‘field of spoil tips’ [the Donbas].”

>> “They just don’t want to go there, because there’s a regular army [the Ukrainian Armed Forces]: it’s difficult to fight against it,” said a former Wagner Group mercenary. “If there’s a regular army, there will be big losses.”

There is another[2] recent article that suggests Russians aren't going to Donbas/Luhansk voluntarily. If so it could explain the losses and shocking morale.

________

[1] A road to nowhere Russian recruiters are mobilizing mercenaries for a ‘trip to the Donbas.’ What they’re expected to do there remains unclear. https://meduza.io/en/feature/2021/12/23/a-road-to-nowhere

[2] ‘I’m panicking — where is my child?’ Conscript soldiers are being sent to fight against Ukraine, their relatives say. Here’s what their families told Meduza. https://meduza.io/en/feature/2022/02/26/i-m-panicking-where-...

Re:Military gap between Russia and Ukraine by jacquesm on Saturday February 26, 2022 @10:36AM (#30478390)
And then there is the Chechens.
Re:Military gap between Russia and Ukraine by goodcanadian on Saturday February 26, 2022 @09:14AM (#30477691)
I don't mean to imply that I don't have the utmost sympathy for the Ukrainians . . .

The Russians were not told that it was a war of aggression; many probably did not realise it until they got there. Is desertion truly a reasonable option? Where are they going to go?

Re:Military gap between Russia and Ukraine by jacquesm on Saturday February 26, 2022 @09:18AM (#30477736)
> Is desertion truly a reasonable option?

Likely the orders will be to shoot deserters. Even so the first desertions have already happened.

> Where are they going to go?

POW separate from the other POWs.

Re:Military gap between Russia and Ukraine by goodcanadian on Saturday February 26, 2022 @09:25AM (#30477782)
And then what? They can never go home again. You said, yourself, that they are "scared kids."

Edit: I have no doubt that there have been some desertions and I am sure that there will be more, but I am not sure that it is reasonable to expect that any given "scared kid" will do so even if they believe they are on the wrong side.

Re:Military gap between Russia and Ukraine by jacquesm on Saturday February 26, 2022 @10:00AM (#30478041)
> They can never go home again.

Beats being buried.

Re:Military gap between Russia and Ukraine by baybal2 on Saturday February 26, 2022 @08:45AM (#30477502)
> Scared Russian kids are fighting for crappy pay 1000's of km from their home against far more numerous people that are defending their families and their home country against an invader.

I noticed following in POW reels: there are no Russian POWs from Moscow, and central regions seemingly at all.

Re:Military gap between Russia and Ukraine by jacquesm on Saturday February 26, 2022 @08:47AM (#30477516)
Yes, noticed that too. All kids from the far East of Russia.
Re:Military gap between Russia and Ukraine by hdjjhhvvhga on Saturday February 26, 2022 @12:05PM (#30479409)
When the war started in 2014, there were many reports of soldiers refusing to fight against Ukrainians and the army recruiting soldiers from faraway republics to minimize the feeling of fratricidal war.
Re:Military gap between Russia and Ukraine by jacquesm on Saturday February 26, 2022 @12:43PM (#30479786)
That has always been the Russian strategy, that's also why Russian riot police is usually from cities far away.